check State of the V:EKN - May 1

02 May 2012 18:45 #29313 by Jeff Kuta

Have the National Coordinators already approved this new structure?
Were the NC’s consulted and allowed the opportunity to provide input?

So far there has been no answer to these two simple questions by any members of the IC. I think these valid questions deserve to be answered.

No.
No.


If the Inner Circle is elected by the National Coordinators, then only the National Coordinators should have the authority to change the Inner Circle.

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02 May 2012 18:52 #29314 by Lönkka

If the Inner Circle is elected by the National Coordinators, then only the National Coordinators should have the authority to change the Inner Circle.

Where does it say that?

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02 May 2012 18:58 #29318 by johannes

If the Inner Circle is elected by the National Coordinators, then only the National Coordinators should have the authority to change the Inner Circle.

Where does it say that?


Correct. Te NCs don´t elect the IC. The IC was appointed by the chairman. The Chairman was elected by unanimous vote during the second last full NC meeting (well, as many as could be gathered) in Paris. If the Chairman sees the need to gather opinions on who to appoint he gathers them as he sees fit.

If you need further information about role and responsibility of NCs I suggest to read this: www.vekn.net/index.php/vampire-elder-kindred-network/what-is-a-national-coordinator

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02 May 2012 19:49 #29334 by Jeff Kuta

Correct. Te NCs don´t elect the IC. The IC was appointed by the chairman.


Also, quoting from the other thread:

I don't agree that you used up all other means of communication and had no choice but to go public. You didn't contact the people that are directly under the IC.

No, us National Coordinators are not special in any way, except we vote for the IC Candidates, we are the people most in contact with them, we counsel them in many situations and don't have any problems in asking them for some accountability (in the volunteer context that we all are), if need be.

I think VEKN could be described as a multi-tiered representative democracy. Players to Princes. Princes to National Coordinators. National Coordinators to Inner Circle.

I voted there. You did too.
In fact, guys like us were there exactly so our countries were represented and had a voice.

For every new IC member we were asked to give our opinion on the candidates.
Yes, we all said ok to Pascal.
We all said ok to Robert.
Unanimous vote is still a vote.

This just proves my point where we have this system, where the ones "electing" each other are the persons selected by the same persons.


So, what's really going on here? It seems to me like there are conflicting accounts of who voted for whom.

Johannes claims he appointed the Inner Circle members.

Tiago says he voted for Inner Circle members.

I would like to believe the V:EKN operates as Jussi believes. If you are elected to a post, you serve (ultimately) at the whim of that constituency, not the other way around.

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02 May 2012 20:03 - 02 May 2012 20:06 #29336 by Izaak
Again, I'm not a fan of this whole IC thing, but Brum is just being a fanboy sprouting out all kinds of nonsense about NC's voting for rhe IC. It's simply not the case. Never was.

Johannes was elected as chairman by unanimous vote during the EC2010. Pascal was heavily pushed forward during the same meeting, but not formally appointed as LSJ had at that point in time not yet told everyone else he'd quit being the netrep.

No other IC members were "chosen by vote". They were all appointed based on (flawed) criteria, similar to how the Design Team was appointed based on (flawed, as it turns out) criteria. Apparently this is going to change (good!) but that's how it's been until now.

Now stop championing your own agendas here. I'm as much a hater of the whole VEKN/new set stuff as it gets but you guys are pushing the boundaries a bit further here.
Last edit: 02 May 2012 20:06 by Izaak.
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02 May 2012 21:45 - 02 May 2012 21:57 #29339 by Jeff Kuta

If you need further information about role and responsibility of NCs I suggest to read this: www.vekn.net/index.php/vampire-elder-kindred-network/what-is-a-national-coordinator


It seems the roles of Princes and National Coordinators are relatively well defined, as well as their relationships between each other.

However, there is no definition of the role of V:EKN Chairman, nor any of the formal Inner Circle member positions. More importantly, those positions are not defined vis a vis the National Coordinators, who clearly play some role in their election.

Moreover, it disturbs me that the NCs are not being consulted on this important structural matter. When I felt there was no further recourse to appeal my situation as part of the Design Team, I had to go public. As a result, I was taken to task by Brum for not following the process further by not consulting the NCs.

It seems there are parallels to be drawn with the above State of the V:EKN post, in particular that the NCs were not consulted. I hope they also hold others to the same standard.

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Last edit: 02 May 2012 21:57 by Jeff Kuta.

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