lightbulb Danse Macabre Previews

03 Oct 2013 08:16 - 03 Oct 2013 08:23 #54732 by Drain
Replied by Drain on topic Re: Danse Macabre Previews
First things first: congratulations are in order for all of the people that made this happen, the artwork is fantastic (Dimple's piece and Shadow Boxing are astounding and I love the expansion symbol) and, though I won't say that I see the new cards as being ideal design, they at least offer to shake up the metagame in a significant way: the game won't stand indifferent to them, is what I'm saying, which I suppose is the point for a compact, 30-card, "every-card-must-count-and-no-chaff-is-allowed-in" kind of expansion set.

Still, I must express agreement with this gentleman:

Actually, yes, designers should look at the star vampires when designing new cards. Instantaneous Transformation is troubling: It's effects are too similar to Freak Drive and Force March, and tt benefits star vampires with these disciplines more than the Gangrel! who need the real boost. Rather than addressing the problem that clan faces, the design team looks to have just thrown untaps at the problem. Is that the solution to weak disciplines? Just replicating other card effects that already exist? More stealth? More untaps?

I would have less of a problem is the card was more limited or specialized in some way. Untap after a non-bleed action, take an action to gain an untap a la Rutor's Hand. Instead this design is just more of the same. With this design philosophy, what's the solution to weak combat disciplines? Adding more damage bonuses? This only further compounds the homogenization of disciplines, and does little to add variety to the game.

I approve of all the crypt cards (despite seeing the Cardinal as being "ham-fistedly good", if you get what I'm saying). It's the library cards that strike more of a chord: Of the three spoiled, all are obviously good, but I have minor issues with two of them:

Under Siege, the better balanced of the three, plugs some holes and its more egregious uses with some of the vicious wall decks should be mitigated by its uniqueness.

Instantaneous Transformation, is ham-fisted and dreadfully unoriginal. It benefits a narrow spectrum of !Gangrel, as a quick search on SLibrary attests: 6 !Gan w/out Fortitude vs. 7 non-!Gan w/CEL,PRO and no For) so its mark in that regard is missed... Adana de Sforza,the Unnamed, sundry !Tor fatties and Christopher Houghton all get way more benefit than any !Gangrel ever will. Making this a clan card or at least making it cost blood with a reduction for !Gan might have been appropriate. Enkidu using this card is not a problem, Inner Circle members with Presence using this card for versatile "stealth or multiact": that, I have some qualms with.

Shadow Boxing, the least offensive of the two, continues the trend of "good combat cards cannot actually have a red border" and going for multi-discipline-multi-type cards instead for maximum bang... the pot-obf seems like a good fit for Nossies but I see only Beast... I don't even rate Enkidu in this equation, seeing as he already multiacts through other means anyway (though the card certainly doesn't hurt his cause) but Beast decks can dutifully leave the Swallowed by the Nights at the gate and pack this instead, every single time: maneuver or press is better than just maneuver and getting a second rush out of the deal (for a minion that cannot multiact) is sweeter than just +1 stealth on the original rush.

None of the cards are game-breaking or anything, it just irks me that they're too much "concentrated goodness", perhaps derived from having to make every slot count. The tweak that is missing in my view: swapping the two inferiors in the dual-discipline cards. I know, it might not seem like much of a deal, but having Shadow Boxing and Instantaneous Transformation do what each other does at inferior would (amazingly) still be thematically appropriate and would be a lot more balanced.

Last edit: 03 Oct 2013 08:23 by Drain.

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03 Oct 2013 09:38 - 03 Oct 2013 09:38 #54733 by Damnans
Replied by Damnans on topic Re: Danse Macabre Previews

:vtes: V:EKN Website Coordinator

:baal: :AUS: :DAI: :FOR: :OBF: :PRE: :MAL: :STR: :flight: :cap11:
Last edit: 03 Oct 2013 09:38 by Damnans.
The following user(s) said Thank You: er-principe

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03 Oct 2013 09:46 #54735 by PetriWessman
Wow. Both are *very* powerful.

A new 7-cap Lasombra with all-superior clan disciplines and a reduction in blood costs? I see this guy (gal?) becoming very popular.

As for Espirit de Corps... wow. That's huge. I already have ally deck plans around this, and I saw it 2 minutes ago :D

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03 Oct 2013 12:39 - 03 Oct 2013 12:41 #54737 by ReverendRevolver
Whenever i worry about lasombra, i remember that g2 tzimisce are still the hands down most solid set of sabbat vamps in one group, and people stiol use the other ones.

This 7 cap is a7 cap, which means itll be cool but not change stealthbleed much. Im seeing cheap entombments coming.....

As a side note, every clan should have a solid 6-7 cap with all in clans at superior and somethimg neat aboit them if they are a 7. Those are vamps i always see use in.
Last edit: 03 Oct 2013 12:41 by ReverendRevolver.

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03 Oct 2013 13:27 #54738 by jamesatzephyr

On the other hand, the City Gangrel distinctly lack *both* of what's now offered here: free stealth and an untap option. I see this as a very nice boost to (City) !Gangrel, who, apart from a few star vampires, aren't all that hot at the moment.

The City Gangrel don't (shouldn't) lack for free stealth, their clan disciplines are CEL/OBF/PRO. (Though in some group pairs, the crypt design is poor for them.) Stealth is pretty in theme for them, as city-dwelling scavengers, hunters and sometimes assassins.

They have some untap through inferior Dual Form (though it's not awesome, obviously), and a sort-of permanent extra untap option through superior Dual Form - though that's fragile and, if you're going for Protean, their combat tends not to be amenable to Taste of Vitae. Even the Country Gangrel types (whether antitribu or not) have easy access to Carrion Crows etc. for extra damage.

(There's also Carrion Coffin/Homunculus, but that's typically a very different sort of untap, much more defensive, unless you have Enkil Cog or something.)

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03 Oct 2013 13:52 #54740 by AaronC
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Danse Macabre Previews
Badr, Shadow of Granada! Wow. He almost feels too good. An awesome picture, too.

PCK also created 7-cap Lasombra crypt card based on this character from the canon, although it was different than this version. I appreciate that the design team made this Badr Independent, since the vampire he was based on was a member of the old Ashirra sect and not the Sabbat.

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