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21 Sep 2015 12:11 #73274 by TwoRazorReign

Well-Aimed Car

[pot] Strike 4R damage; only usable at long range.


Taste of Death

[qui] Strike: 1R damage. Only usable at long range.

You would argue that Well-Aimed Car is incorrect because the card is saying you can either strike for 4R damage or only use the strike at long range?

Only usable at long range is a condition of use, not an effect. So it doesn't matter how they are separated.

Both are functionally equivalent to:

Only usable at long range; Strike: 4R

and

Only usable at long range. Strike: 1R


Thnaks for the responses. The punctuation is not really the issue then. It is the sentence structure on Aire of Elation.

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21 Sep 2015 22:16 #73277 by Juggernaut1981
You are confusing a 'requirement to play' with an 'effect from play'.

Aire of Elation has one requirement to play "Does this vampire have
?".
If yes, then it can be played and there are no further 'requirements'. It will give it ONE effect of +2 bleed at Superior or +3 bleed if the acting vampire is a Toreador... as it is written.

If you changed it to be two sentences, then it would have two effects.
Effect 1: +2 Bleed.
Effect 2: If you are a Toreador +3 Bleed.

This would mean Toreadors would get +5 bleed from using the card.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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22 Sep 2015 00:45 - 22 Sep 2015 00:51 #73278 by TwoRazorReign

You are confusing a 'requirement to play' with an 'effect from play'.

Aire of Elation has one requirement to play "Does this vampire have
?".
If yes, then it can be played and there are no further 'requirements'. It will give it ONE effect of +2 bleed at Superior or +3 bleed if the acting vampire is a Toreador... as it is written.

If you changed it to be two sentences, then it would have two effects.
Effect 1: +2 Bleed.
Effect 2: If you are a Toreador +3 Bleed.

This would mean Toreadors would get +5 bleed from using the card.


I understand what you are saying, but I think I'm not stating my point clearly. Normally, a semicolon and period can be used interchangably without changing meaning. You have illustrated quite nicely that previous rules teams have attributed a difference in meaning to clauses ending in semicolons and periods. People who are not well-versed in how previous rules teams used punctuation may interpret the card to mean something other than "or +3 bleed if the acting vampire is a Toreador". Aire of Elation needs to say ", or +3 bleed" instead of "; +3 bleed," which is a different (and clearer) sentence structure.
Last edit: 22 Sep 2015 00:51 by TwoRazorReign.

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22 Sep 2015 03:48 #73279 by Juggernaut1981

Aire of Elation needs to say ", or +3 bleed" instead of "; +3 bleed," which is a different (and clearer) sentence structure.

Considering the cards that should get a text edit, and haven't... I think that idea is pie-in-the-sky.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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22 Sep 2015 14:00 #73282 by Ankha

Musing on...
  1.  +2 bleed, with an additional +1 bleed if this vampire is Toreador.
  2.  +2 bleed, or +3 bleed if this vampire is Toreador.
  3.  +2 bleed, +3 instead if this vampire is Toreador.

2 is slightly ambiguous because one could think a Toreador could have the choice to play it for +2 bleed only (to avoid an Archon Investigation for instance).


I think 1 and 2 are fine, and I don't find either ambiguous.


2 is ambiguous because "or" can also indicate an alternative.

For instance Virtuosa:
[mel] +1 stealth and +2 bleed, or +2 bleed.

or Angel of Berlin:
Untap an imbued, or equip a ready imbued you control with an equipment from your hand (requirements must be met; pay cost as normal).

Adding an "if" clause is not enough to make it clear that you have no choice when playing the card.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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22 Sep 2015 16:47 #73284 by TwoRazorReign

Aire of Elation needs to say ", or +3 bleed" instead of "; +3 bleed," which is a different (and clearer) sentence structure.

Considering the cards that should get a text edit, and haven't... I think that idea is pie-in-the-sky.


Pie in the sky indeed. I'm just being an arm chair editor, haha!

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