Would you accept tournaments with Proxies ? and Why

Brum wrote:

I've been an huge supporter of allowing proxies and was one of the most vocal persons in that regard, be it here or in NC meetings.
I simply changed my mind by having discussions such as this one.

Proxies help create a standard meta, because new players will netdeck much more.
An argument I haven't thought until someone mentioned was:
Imagine you allow proxies and then the game gets picked up again. What then? People will lose their proxies, specially those that will be more expensive cards again. If they continuing in VtES was dependant on the use of proxies, they will now leave.
Yes, we will have the same issue with the new VEKN expansions.

Remember, the longer the game is without an owner, the less these decisions are black and white.

Except that we can ask the new company picking up VtES to reprint those cards (such as in older Starters for Warghouls, Villein, etc.)

Not that easy, even if there was no legal problem (might be or not).
Would you, as a company, pick up a game where the players play with printed cards?

On the other hand, I know that the less people we have in the game, the less interest companies have in it.
So, I understand the arguments of people that say that proxies give new players less things to worry about in a game already hard to master by itself.

That is what I meant by the more time goes without a company behind VtES, the less these decisions are black and white.

Right now I believe that the players that invests time and money carefully weighting changes in his decks creates a bigger attachment and loyalty to the game, then a player that invests some time to learn the rules, copies decks from the net card by card.

Even if there is a legal problem, the most that can happen is a "cease and desist." There is no monetary loss for home-printing cards to an out of print game. The "legal" issue is moot.

The money issue is fucking hilarious. If proxies were allowed I would spend more on ink and paper than I have on cards in the past three years. (not to mention the number of sleeves I would need!) Spending money to play the game is not an issue, the problem is paying stupid amounts of money for a few cards for a dead game to a *third person* rather than a local gaming store or the creator of the game.

What I would like to see is a kickstarter or other crowd-funding venture to re-print old cards. If V:EKN steps up as volunteers to collect the cash, get the cards printed, pay off the license-holders as a non-profit venture, do you think Hasbro and CCP etc would go for it? Probably not if they are actually interested in selling/licensing the game as that would reduce it's sale value to prospective publishers. But if they have no such intentions, would they say no to a little cash for no effort on their part? Again probably not, because they wan't to "protect" their stake in the intellectual properties. And THIS is why all lawyers should be shot.

direwolf wrote:

What I would like to see is a kickstarter or other crowd-funding venture to re-print old cards. If V:EKN steps up as volunteers to collect the cash

And prey tell how would VEKN do that?

We are just a volunteer organization with no bank account or other similar "official" strappings.

Problem is that we would need a modest sized wad of cash to make it worth Hasbros lawyers looking at it, let alone considering it enough to pass along. Im not positivr, but im assuming a giant like that has expensive retainerfees on lawyers. And then all it takes is some intern suggesting it takes money from or competes with one of thier products, and the lawyers and marketing analysts may just get ignored, even if they liked us.

But im 576% behind a several billion copy reprint spree of staples and expensive stuff so that we stop bugging them. That would solve some issues. Or, they could just negotiate with onebookshelf.com, since they already collaberate. Or, as i said when Garfeild dropped misinformation, HE could push for that collaboration to happen again. That may get us alive.

Anyone his neighbor? Annoying neigbors force you into doing things fast so you can get back to ignoring them. Just a thought......

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Problem is that we would need a modest sized wad of cash to make it worth Hasbros lawyers looking at it, let alone considering it enough to pass along. Im not positivr, but im assuming a giant like that has expensive retainerfees on lawyers. And then all it takes is some intern suggesting it takes money from or competes with one of thier products, and the lawyers and marketing analysts may just get ignored, even if they liked us.

But im 576% behind a several billion copy reprint spree of staples and expensive stuff so that we stop bugging them. That would solve some issues. Or, they could just negotiate with onebookshelf.com, since they already collaberate. Or, as i said when Garfeild dropped misinformation, HE could push for that collaboration to happen again. That may get us alive.

How is Garfiel in any position to effectively push anything?
Granted he sure couldn't do any harm but really...?
When was the last time he actually worked fro WotC?

Besides, if we didn't (yet) get a permission to do Print on demand for a set of our own (Danse Macabre) do you really think they'd let us reprint the cards that were originally done by them/CCP?