question-circle Pentex Subversion Poll #2 and Discussion

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Poll: Possible fixes for Pentex Subversion (was ended 0000-00-00 00:00:00)

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12 Mar 2014 12:43 - 12 Mar 2014 12:43 #59873 by Ankha

Don't complain when Fatima or other star combat decks start turning Methuselahs into craters.
Even when said combat decks don't win the table.

That is SOOOO much more fun than being ousted by a player using ONE last turn Pentex, right?

Oh yeah, let's bring back Una and Enkidu!

I'm surprised Mimir isn't more popular given the all-mightiness of Pentex.

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Last edit: 12 Mar 2014 12:43 by Ankha.

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12 Mar 2014 12:45 #59874 by ReverendRevolver

Don't complain when Fatima or other star combat decks start turning Methuselahs into craters.
Even when said combat decks don't win the table.

That is SOOOO much more fun than being ousted by a player using ONE last turn Pentex, right?



Seriously, you guys do know that if you oust a player with a Pentex, it is removed from game, thus it can't come back via Ashurs / Sudarion, right?


If fatima turns your ready region into craters, build a better deck.

I use fortitude liberally, and rarely have a non stealthbleed deck with no prevent and or sce.

"Scary combat" feared in tourneys is normally tupdogs and enkidu lately.

Tupdogs i last played against with akunanse no secrets, and they werent even remotely threatening.

Enky only has basic fortitude. So, its rare i have offensive combat he doesnt fear, and othertimes i roll woth punches until someone shuts him down.

Combat shouldnt wreck much, unless you have bad combat answers. If so, you are metagamed. The enky deck is metagamed with stealtjbleed behind it, so we are back to rock paper scissors.

Now, combat played poorly is always an issue, but tjats another thread.

But, since i respect the hell outta Tiago most days, ill answer:

The tablw fan help me against rushes, and pentex can be defensive as well as offensive. Ive stopped my grandpreys demise and my prey gaining 6pool by contesting pentex and rescuing a blocker before.

And ive struggled against warghouls and torpor-napping all game.

Both are just things that happen sometimes.

Somedays it feels likexmy shadows casting me........

Its
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12 Mar 2014 14:28 #59882 by yesferatu
Sure, Kevin, but you don't see a lot of posts asking to errata Sensory Deprivation.
V:TES has a history of lock down mechanics. It's nothing new.
Pentex doesn't do any pool damage on its own, you can't oust with it on its own.
It's both defensive and offensive. It exists, deal with it.

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13 Mar 2014 04:24 #59899 by AaronC

I have observed that a lot of games I have seen lately revolve around Pentex. Who draws/plays Pentex at what time is a major factor in 80-90% of games I play, especially in the last 18 months or so. This seems too much to me. It has nothing to do with the card being overpowered but simply with the fact that it is dominating (my) meta so much.

On the other hand the argument has beend made that the card needs to stay because it is the only really viable option against a massively tooled up single blocker deck outside of block fails disciplines and Seduction. I am partially convinced here, most of the time those decks have their Pentex already on the table by the time you draw yours.


I believe I saw a video of a final that you lost because of Pentex.

The argument against Pentex is stronger than arguments in its favor. The argument against it is that it is a master card that can prevent a player from having access to a huge percentage of his resources. I don't care so much about the no-blocking thing, it's the no-acting thing that is the problem. Pentex makes big vampires much less playable. I have seen many games and fun ruined by Pentex on a single vampire. I want to be able to play star vampire decks without having to use undue resources to defend against Pentex.

My example comes from the second day of NAC 2012. I was playing a bruise and bleed and Deflect deck starring Cassandra Magus Prime with Blood Fury and Celerity. In two of my games, I ousted my first prey, and then a tooled up Cassandra was Pentexed by a player with allies in the 3-player. My small-cap support had no chance to remove the Pentex while Cassandra certainly could have burned or torporized anything that got in her way. The ally player each time then let my predator oust me and went on to win. Both the ally players went to the final.

I'm not sure why it's good to be able to potentially neutralize so much of a player's resources with one master. Pentex is not just a block denier, it is an action eater, and that is what is so unpleasant about it. How many actions every game are spent attempting to remove a Pentex?

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13 Mar 2014 05:32 #59901 by Haze
if pentex shuts your deck down, pack your own pentex to contest it out of play B-)


since pentex is in every deck, why don't we just make it a part of the game? have it replace the edge, nobody remembers that useless crap anyway. "i bleed you for 1 and the pentex" "i can't let you have the pentex, i block"

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13 Mar 2014 09:10 #59910 by Ankha

My example comes from the second day of NAC 2012. I was playing a bruise and bleed and Deflect deck starring Cassandra Magus Prime with Blood Fury and Celerity. In two of my games, I ousted my first prey, and then a tooled up Cassandra was Pentexed by a player with allies in the 3-player. My small-cap support had no chance to remove the Pentex while Cassandra certainly could have burned or torporized anything that got in her way. The ally player each time then let my predator oust me and went on to win. Both the ally players went to the final.

So you were hosed by a hoser? That seems natural.
Now, replace "Pentex Subversion" by "Aranthebes the Immortal" and your deck by a weenie. None of your minion can remove the Aranthebes. Should Aranthebes be banned? (Aranthebes is even harder to burn than Pentex if the other Methuselah's don't have cap > 4 vampires)

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