check Rules Team Rulings 02-DEC-11

08 Dec 2011 08:14 #17553 by Pascal Bertrand
Arishat, Maureen, Danielle Diron, base Ambrogino Giovanni, ..
They're usually worded "X votes." (The Baron, Mata Hari, ..)

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08 Dec 2011 08:15 #17554 by Chaitan

Anyone can give me example of vampire with "has X votes"?


Aziz, Dammar of Instanbul
Luna Giovanni
Bela Kardoza

Recieve X additional votes.

Amaravati
Gerald Windham
Ayo Igoli

Do not have X in the text but recieve a variable amount of additional votes.

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08 Dec 2011 08:18 - 08 Dec 2011 08:26 #17556 by Kosmo_Kebab
Gerald? paradox? x votes if no title, gain title if has x votes?

or "Has x votes" means
has x votes where x=1,2,3 or 4(constant values) exp.?
Last edit: 08 Dec 2011 08:26 by Kosmo_Kebab.

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08 Dec 2011 08:44 - 08 Dec 2011 08:54 #17564 by Pascal Bertrand
The change in cardtexts is about cards that read "[This vampire] has X votes" (or simply "X votes"). It doesn't extend to vampires with "Has X additional votes", because that cardtext doesn't make the vampires titled.

[LSJ 20100601] wrote:

> From what I remember, sources of additional votes do NOT convey
> "Titled"-ness to a vampire.

Correct. Having votes is not the same as being titled.

> For example cards such as Firebrand,
> Legendary Vampire and the effect of 3xOrun do NOT make the vampire
> with those cards titled.

> Alternatively, an Independant Vampire with 1 Vote, is a "Titled"
> vampire.

The card text on a crypt card "Me has 1 vote." is a title, yes.
[10.4]

> This becomes important particularly with something like Fee Stake:
> XXX.

> IF additional votes do NOT convey a "title", then any votes held by a
> vampire with, for example Legendary Vampire + 6x Orun, would NOT be
> affected by Fee Stake: XXX or any other card that reduces the votes of
> "titled" vampires. Additionally, it would mean that the vampire could
> NOT be targeted by any card which chooses a "titled" vampire.

Correct. (unless that vampire also had an actual title).

Last edit: 08 Dec 2011 08:54 by Pascal Bertrand.

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08 Dec 2011 17:10 #17685 by Jeff Kuta
Kosmo,

10.4. Independents

Other clans are not aligned with any of the major sects; they are called Independent...

Some Independent vampires may start with votes, as listed on card text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of their own.



Classic examples of titled vampires include Thetmes, Amisa and Kephamos. Each is an Independent titled vampire who has "2 votes".

If a card has the worth "Title" on it and is put in play, it is a "title card." Examples include Praxis Seizures, Crusades, Justicars and Cardinal votes.

Other cards such as Heirophant don't say "Title" but rather "has 1 additional vote." Basically, contrast what the words say for cards played whether they say "Title" or "Additional votes" to distinguish.

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08 Dec 2011 22:40 #17744 by prunesquallor

10.4. Independents

Other clans are not aligned with any of the major sects; they are called Independent...

Some Independent vampires may start with votes, as listed on card text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of their own.


This is, IMHO, a pretty obscure portion of the rulebook to contain this rule. I was recently building a deck using some of the vampires you mention, and was considering whether to put in Free States Rant. I consulted every section in the book I could think of on politics and titles, and found nothing. I later found it (with the help of my opponents in a casual game :P )

It's an obscure part of the rulebook to put it because it's not so much relevant to Independents as it is to voting. So, just asking that if we ever have a rulebook revision, that the above "clarification" to old cards be put in a section relevant to political referendums.

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