check Rules Team Rulings 02-DEC-11

08 Dec 2011 22:53 - 08 Dec 2011 22:54 #17746 by fredsct

10.4. Independents

Other clans are not aligned with any of the major sects; they are called Independent...

Some Independent vampires may start with votes, as listed on card text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of their own.


This is, IMHO, a pretty obscure portion of the rulebook to contain this rule.
...
So, just asking that if we ever have a rulebook revision, that the above "clarification" to old cards be put in a section relevant to political referendums.


Some years ago, I asked LSJ why the term "Titled" could not be placed on each independent vampire with votes? Then, why do you even need a rule like this at all?!? His answer to me was that he didn't want to "junk up" (my term for the essence of his meaning, not his) the card texts with excess terms like "Titled".

Now, to me, this kind of thing is exactly what you want in the card text: it's relevant, informative, and doesn't make the players depend on their memory (or be just plain confusing to the new players who haven't found the operative rule, yet) for this kind of minutia. To LSJ, it's basically junk.

This why head has bumps from banging on desktops.

Fred
Last edit: 08 Dec 2011 22:54 by fredsct.

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09 Dec 2011 07:48 #17783 by Lönkka

Now, to me, this kind of thing is exactly what you want in the card text: it's relevant, informative, and doesn't make the players depend on their memory (or be just plain confusing to the new players who haven't found the operative rule, yet) for this kind of minutia.

I totally agree.

To LSJ, it's basically junk.

IANLSJ, but could it be that by this he meant that he'd like to reserve the limited textbox space in a card for the (unique) card texts which sometimes can run a bit long?

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09 Dec 2011 09:00 #17790 by Ankha

To LSJ, it's basically junk.

IANLSJ, but could it be that by this he meant that he'd like to reserve the limited textbox space in a card for the (unique) card texts which sometimes can run a bit long?

"Titled" isn't a very long word. To save space, we could define the (T) keyword indicating the vampire is titled (like R damage)

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09 Dec 2011 09:06 #17791 by henrik

To LSJ, it's basically junk.

IANLSJ, but could it be that by this he meant that he'd like to reserve the limited textbox space in a card for the (unique) card texts which sometimes can run a bit long?

"Titled" isn't a very long word. To save space, we could define the (T) keyword indicating the vampire is titled (like R damage)


A keyword would still need to be explained in the rulebook in order to make sense. Which would bring back this same issue.

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09 Dec 2011 10:41 #17794 by Ke.

but could it be that by this he meant that he'd like to reserve the limited textbox space in a card for the (unique) card texts which sometimes can run a bit long?


Yeah, that makes sense — look at Ur-Shulgi's text, it's fairly epic and his +1 bleed text was missed out:

Errata: Ur-Shulgi has +1 bleed. [RTR 20010710]

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09 Dec 2011 11:19 #17798 by johannes
Replace "Ur-Shulgi has 2 votes" with "Titled. 2 votes."
Who else should have two votes except this vampire?

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