Extrala is wrong (Did you know, that ... (Part 91))
I'll skip pithy comments and jump straight to this.
LSJ reversed course from the excerpt being used as the basis for this argument. Please see below.
> > > What if the opposing minion B is not sent to torpor and someone sets
> > > the round to long afterward?
> > > Can A play Pulled Fangs since A dealt more damage at close range
> > > (before range was determined)?
> > No.
> > > Or are the damage from Outside the Hourglass considered to be dealt at
> > > long range?
> > Sure.
>
> If minion B would've had an Improvised Flamethrower equipped, would xe
> take 2 aggravated damage as soon as the range was set to long in the
> above case?
>
No.
(Making the "sure" above an "I guess not -- but the point is that the
range is long")
"I guess not" sure seems to imply that the OtH damage is accumulated from the range at which it was played (close, unless a set range card determined range before the OtH was played).
I'll skip all the cases in which it might follow (or not follow) that OtH and Disarm might (might not) work. I will point out, however, that Disarm does NOT include the text "only playable at close range" - it only checks for damage totals accumulated at close. This likely leads to a thematic/intent conflict with our typical "card text" rules definitions.
D.
In the same thread, we can read:
> > > Pulled fangs cannot be played if Outside the Hourglass hits and then
> > > range is determined to be long.
Pulled Fangs cannot be played at long range, correct.
And yet, Pulled Fangs states nothing about close/long range except for the damage inflicted:
Name: Pulled Fangs
[Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, SW:PB, CE:R2, Anarchs:PAG]
Cardtype: Combat
Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this minion inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a {minion being burned or going into torpor}.
Put this card on the opposing vampire, and this minion inflicts 1 point of damage. The victim cannot hunt until this card is removed. Any vampire(s) may burn this card with two +1 stealth actions. If the victim must hunt and cannot, he or she goes into torpor. A vampire can have only 1 Pulled Fangs.
There's nothing that prevents the card from being played at long range. So LSJ must be refering to the "more damage at close range" part which is common with Disarm:
Name: Disarm
[Sabbat:R, SW:R, CE:PB, BH:PN, KMW:PAl, Third:R]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Potence
[pot] Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Put this card on the opposing vampire and send that vampire into torpor. The vampire with this card has -1 strength. He or she may burn this card by burning 3 blood. A vampire can have only one Disarm.
[POT] As above, but the vampire with this card has -2 strength.
LSJ's statement "Making the "sure" above an "I guess not -- but the point is that the range is long" is confusing, but it states clearly before and after that statement that Pulled Fangs (or Disarm which has the same wording) doesn't work when range is determined to be long.
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Range has been set to long, therefore the damage of Outside the Hourglass are considered to have been dealt at long range (making Disarm/Pulled Fangs not playable).Ok, one more
Outside the Hourglass (A) + Selective Silence long (B) + Alpha Glint (A)
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Range has been set to long, therefore the damage of Outside the Hourglass are considered to have been dealt at long range (making Disarm/Pulled Fangs not playable).Ok, one more
Outside the Hourglass (A) + Selective Silence long (B) + Alpha Glint (A)
I just then don't understand how minion with Improvised Flamethrower can't take 2 aggravated damage from Outside the Hourglass.
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Range has been set to long, therefore the damage of Outside the Hourglass are considered to have been dealt at long range (making Disarm/Pulled Fangs not playable).Ok, one more
Outside the Hourglass (A) + Selective Silence long (B) + Alpha Glint (A)
Please folks, stop confounding what is happening. There is no LIFO queue. A card is played. It resolves. Play the next card, or pass the impulse. Rinse, repeat.
In the order described, OtH first, the damage is done at default range (close). Then Silence sets the range to long, Alpha Glint ends combat...all in that order. The 2 damage event happened at close range.
Reverse the SS and OtH and you get ranged damage. Likewise, if you do that at a minion with an Imp Flamethrower, you get the ImpFT explosion effect, cause the range was at long range.
If you OtH and then maneuver in the "Set Range Step", OtH damage has ALREADY happened, at predefined conditions (close).
The only question that really exist is if Disarm and Pulled Fangs, which lack "Only playable at close range" are indeed really playable at long, if you managed to pull of prerange damage at close.
For that, we need Pascal.
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