file Horrific Countenance

19 May 2012 20:04 #30756 by Megabaja
Can this card be played after the combat if the action is blocked?

Ignorance is bliss.
Cypher, Matrix

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19 May 2012 20:21 #30757 by jamesatzephyr
No.

To be playable after resolution (including a block-combat), the action modifier or reaction needs to indicate that it goes there. Various do - Freak Drive, Cats' Guidance etc.

[LSJ 20080217]

> If Minion B strikes for 3 damage, and Vamp A is going to torpor, does
> Vamp A still have time to play an Action Modifier?

Yes, if the action modifier is one that can be played after resolution.

Daring the Dawn is not such an action modifier.

> I think the answer to both questions is Yes, since Freak Drive can be
> played after combat, and it's an Action Modifier.

Freak Drive is, indeed, such a modifier.


Horrific Countenance has no such indicative text.

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19 May 2012 20:51 #30759 by Megabaja
Replied by Megabaja on topic Re: Horrific Countenance
Horrific Countenance
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Protean
Cost: 4 blood
Only usable when this vampire is blocked.
[pro] Untap the blocking minion. This action is not blocked, and it is now unblockable.

Change of Target
Type: Action Modifier
Only usable when this acting minion is blocked (play before combat, if any). Untap the acting minion, do not tap the blocking minion, and end the current action (it is not successful). This minion cannot perform the same action again this turn.

I get your point, but Horrific does not have "play before combat, if any" clause either. I'll remind you that both - "play before combat, if any" and "play after combat, if any" are written in brackets on some cards, but not on all. I just guessed that if it is not written, it can be used anytime requirement is met, even after combat.

I would really like to see some official clarifications on this card, if possible, since i use it a lot.

Ignorance is bliss.
Cypher, Matrix

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19 May 2012 20:56 #30761 by Megabaja
Replied by Megabaja on topic Re: Horrific Countenance
Sorry for new post, but i do not want to edit while someone is reading...

This card uses similar wording... Notice the usage of word immediately, but in brackets it states - after combat.

Forced Vigilance
Type: Reaction
Requires: Fortitude
Cost: 1 blood
[for] Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire.
[FOR] Only usable by a tapped vampire during a (D) action directed against you (or something you control). Untap this vampire.

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Cypher, Matrix

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20 May 2012 04:29 #30767 by jamesatzephyr

I get your point, but Horrific does not have "play before combat, if any" clause either.


Daring the Dawn has no text restricting when it can be played at all. It just says "Vampires cannot block this action. The acting vampire takes 2 unpreventable aggravated damage after the action resolves."

So since the complete lack of requirement has been met, it can be played after resolution. Right?

No. Per the cited ruling, you need an explicit indication. Horrific Countenance doesn't have it.

I just guessed that if it is not written, it can be used anytime requirement is met, even after combat.


The cited ruling indicates precisely the opposite.

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20 May 2012 09:26 #30778 by Megabaja
Replied by Megabaja on topic Re: Horrific Countenance

So since the complete lack of requirement has been met, it can be played after resolution. Right?


I understand what you want to say, and I understand that there was a ruling prohibiting usage of Daring the Dawn after combat. My point is the same - I just want some rulings considering this card.
This card was written long time ago, and I do not have a clue what was designer's intention at the time.
All I am saying is:

When it can be used? - Only usable when this vampire is blocked.

It has neither "before" or "after" combat clause, and there is no list of cards that can be used at specific time. At least not to my knowledge. Their restriction is either bold text, or specific ruling.

Pointing me at the Daring the Dawn ruling does not solve my Horrific Countenance problem. Neither Psychomachia and Elder Impersonation rulings do.

action modifiers cannot be played after resolution, in general.


I completely understand this statement, but, as I said, I do not have a clue what designer meant this card should do.

Ignorance is bliss.
Cypher, Matrix

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