Horrific Countenance

Suoli wrote:

Ankha wrote:

It comes for ruling #4.

I'm not sure I understand. What and where is ruling #4?

Check my summary post above.

Suoli wrote:

Timing "after" means "immediately after".
timing "when" should mean "immediately when", contrary to "some time after the when condition is met".

Why should "when" be defined that way, as opposed to "while in timing window x", where window x could encompass, for example, a block combat and all it's steps?

Because 1/ it matches the current rulings
2/ it follows the same pattern as "after" (see ruling 4)
3/ many games work like this (including card games such as Magic, Games of Thrones), so it's easier to remind, understand and learn. They trigger at the moment the condition is met, not later.
But as you state it, it seems to have the same meaning.

Megabaja wrote:

> Then, to LSJ:
> How does one tell when text is reminder text, and when it is rules
> text?
> Is it simply by way of redundancy?

Yes.

And what exactly does "way of redundancy" mean?

Quoting random text (no link?) that is unclear is dishonest when you have 4 full link stating clearly that text between parenthesis is not always reminder text.

Megabaja wrote:

Name: Forced Vigilance
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Fortitude[for] Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire.
Same card text for Cats' Guidance.

The important text is in bold. Text between parenthesis is not reminder text.

See. I could think that, in the above case, text in parenthesis is redundant, since outside of parenthesis is clearly written immediately. And in your theory immediately means before combat (or anything else, for that matter).

On my side, I could think that you're playing dumb on purpose. The text between parenthesis is not reminder text. It indicates clearly when the card is played. Without it, some people would think the card would/could be played before combat, some others only after.

Megabaja wrote:

When? When the card tells so.
And no, combat doesn't start immediately after block if you play a card that must be played at that time. Eg. Obedience.

Obedience has a clear text that indicates that timing window is "when about to enter combat". This card does not have such text (or any similar). State of being blocked is lasting, as Suoli already wrote. Edit: And Change of Target and other similar cards have "play before combat" text in parenthesis.

So the card is not playable at the only moment it would have a real effect? You'd better tear your Sniper Rifle into pieces then too, because with the current wording, you can't use it neither to set the range.
Unless you're smart and you play the card when it is meant to be played.

Megabaja wrote:

Timing "after" means "immediately after".

In a case of Forced Vigilance it does not. It means after combat. As I already said.

This is ludicrous and I can't help if you disagree with the current ruling stated by LSJ and confirmed by Pascal Bertrand. You should apply to the rulemonger's job so you could build your own rules.

Megabaja wrote:

@Edge of the World has text: Only usable if you have gained a victory point during this action
And this card in not usable at all, since it does not have "play after resolution of an action" or similar text and you gain VP after your action resolves, and not while it is lasting? Or is it usable after resolution after all?

Ask the rulemonger, I don't create rulings.

Now, I'll stop feeding the troll called Megabaja and wait that Pascal Bertrand enlightens us.