Re: Faceless Night x Deflection

Sambomb wrote:

After all this the bleed is "resolved" and then the bleed only reactions like reducers and bounces can be played.

If Methuselahs are still playing cards, then the action is still not "resolved" because the action modifiers and reactions could still change the outcome of said action.

Sambomb wrote:

Faceless Night Tap the blocking minion after ALL minions decline to block/cancel.

No. As per card text, Faceless Night taps you before the action is resolved. That is not at this point.

Sambomb wrote:

IMO is when the block phase ends and the cost ( if any ) is pay.

These two things don't happen simultaneously, though! You don't pay for Govern the Unaligned and then play Conditioning afterwards.

Blocks are declined. Everyone - per the section of rulebook I quoted - gets the opportunity to play effects because of that. Once everyone passes on those extra effects (or any more of them), you move to action resolution.

Jeff wrote:

Sambomb wrote:

After all this the bleed is "resolved" and then the bleed only reactions like reducers and bounces can be played.

If Methuselahs are still playing cards, then the action is still not "resolved" because the action modifiers and reactions could still change the outcome of said action.

So if instead of a bleed I make a political action ( Methuselahs are still playing cards ) the referendum starts and the blocking vampire is not tapped and can play reactions in the political action?

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Sambomb wrote:

Faceless Night Tap the blocking minion after ALL minions decline to block/cancel.

No. As per card text, Faceless Night taps you before the action is resolved. That is not at this point.

Sambomb wrote:

IMO is when the block phase ends and the cost ( if any ) is pay.

These two things don't happen simultaneously, though! You don't pay for Govern the Unaligned and then play Conditioning afterwards.

Blocks are declined. Everyone - per the section of rulebook I quoted - gets the opportunity to play effects because of that. Once everyone passes on those extra effects (or any more of them), you move to action resolution.

Conditioning is an Action Modifier and can be played ( and pay the cost ) before the block phase ends, after the action cost is pay is considered resolved and then start a new phase to resolve the final result.

That new phase is when you react to a referendum, combat, bleed, etc...

Huh?

You act. Someone blocks. You play faceless night at OBF.

Your prey, or whoever, has no further blocks.

Anyone else who can block can try, so predator or eagles sight or whatever.

Now, if blocks are declined, people deflect, reduce, DT, etc.

At any of these times, you can conditioning or whatever.

Now, a bleed action would at this point burn pool and RESOLVE. The FNd blocker taps.

Political action is sucessful. Go to referendom. Pass or fail or delay. Votes terms named, votes cast, then totaled. Passes or fails, voter cap, whatever. Now apply effects and the action resolves.

Euip/employ/recruit, action unblocked, success, put card where it goes and action resolves.

Combat, after combat ends without things such as form of mist or earthmeld happening, action resolves.

When the minion who is acting is no longer acting is the easiest way to tell an action has resolved. You are still acting until resolution, so an untapped assamite who you faceless night at SUP got by can still tap to foul blood yoir hunt action, etc, because they tap when the action resolves.

Sambomb wrote:

Conditioning is an Action Modifier and can be played ( and pay the cost ) before the block phase ends, after the action cost is pay is considered resolved and then start a new phase to resolve the final result.

That new phase is when you react to a referendum, combat, bleed, etc...

Err, no, the game doesn't work like this. In that phase - if it existed in the manner you describe, which it doesn't - the ordinary sequencing rules would pass the impulse back to the acting Methuselah after every effect was played (see the rulebook, 1.6.1.5).

You can - in the general case - play reactions prior to deciding to decline to block. Bounce is not playable here due to explicit card text, but this is not so for a variety of other reactions. For example, prior to deciding to decline to block, I can:

- play Telepathic Counter, hoping to draw into some more intercept

- play Faerie Wards, to just outright fail the action

- play an unnecessary wake card (say, On the Qui Vive) with a minion, even though you're not going to try to block or do anything with them, in the hope of drawing into some intercept

- play Aversion at any level (cel/val/VAL)

- play Glare of Lies, to decide whether it's worth trying to block (perhaps you can see that they have a boatload of stealth in their hand)

- play Rat's Warning to untap, so that that vampire can choose to attempt a block

And plenty of other reactions too.



Further, the cost of an action is not paid prior to a minion playing Deflection. The action is not considered resolved at the point you claim it is considered resolved. Actions do not immediately move to resolution when blocks are declined, no matter how many times you claim the opposite is true.