file Illusions of the Kindred VS Outside the Hourglass

03 Jan 2018 21:33 - 03 Jan 2018 21:43 #84709 by Sambomb
Acting minion A enter combat with opposing minion B ( 3 blood ).

A play Outside the Hourglass at :TEM:, impulse move to B.
B try to play Illusions of the Kindred at :CHI:

What happen?

A - Illusion of kindred combat ends resolves first then outside the hourglass, B only pay the cost.
B - B take the damage, then check for cost of the Illusion, no blood then the card fizzle
C - B pay the cost, take the damage and go to torpor before resolve the combat ends effect.
D - B pay the cost, take the damage, resolve the new combat of the illusion, and then go to torpor.

If B is the acting minion, what changes?

Illusions of the Kindred :combat: Combat :CHI: Chimerstry 2 :blood:

Only usable before range is determined.
:chi: Combat ends. Move the bottom card of your crypt to your ready region. He or she does not contest any other minions or titles in play. The vampire has an amount of blood equal to half of his or her capacity (round down). Combat begins between the vampire and the opposing minion. Remove the crypt card from the game at the end of combat.
:CHI: As above, but the vampire has an amount of blood equal to his or her capacity.



Outside the Hourglass :combat: Combat :TEM: Temporis :OBF: Obfuscate

:obf: : Strike: dodge.
:tem: Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver.
:TEM: Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at superior each round.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Last edit: 03 Jan 2018 21:43 by Sambomb.

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03 Jan 2018 22:46 #84711 by kschaefer
If minion A is acting:
Minion takes 2 points of damage from Outside the Hourglass immediately and can no longer afford to play Illusions of the Kindred. Combat continues as normal.

If minion B is acting (and assuming B wants to play IotK at first impulse):
Minion B plays Illusions of the Kindred. Minion A can choose to play Outside the Hourglass during the IotK combat. There is, however, no opportunity to play it in the original combat because combat has ended. You cannot play a combat card outside of combat.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Blooded Sand, Sambomb

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04 Jan 2018 00:57 #84712 by Blooded Sand

If minion A is acting:
Minion takes 2 points of damage from Outside the Hourglass immediately and can no longer afford to play Illusions of the Kindred. Combat continues as normal.

If minion B is acting (and assuming B wants to play IotK at first impulse):
Minion B plays Illusions of the Kindred. Minion A can choose to play Outside the Hourglass during the IotK combat. There is, however, no opportunity to play it in the original combat because combat has ended. You cannot play a combat card outside of combat.


Very succinctly put.

:assa: :flight: :QUI: :OBF: :POT: :FOR: :TEM: :DOM:

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04 Jan 2018 02:14 #84714 by Sambomb
Thanks for the reply, I think that the correct option is C, at the damage resolution step of Outside the Hourglass, B can play any viable card, including Illusions of the Kindred, pay the cost and resolve each card as needed, but the damage still had to be resolved and therefore B goes to torpor ending the combat and the action.

I hope the rulemonger could clarify that.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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04 Jan 2018 10:32 - 04 Jan 2018 10:34 #84724 by Ankha
Based on the previous clarification www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/76197-still-confused-about-multiple-outside-the-hourglasses#83682

1/ A plays Outside the Hourglass.
2/ A passes the impulse.
3/ B plays Illusions of the Kindred (now 0 blood). Combat ends but there's still 2 damage to handle (groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/UIFzsu-Zips/fafEXIwVn08J)
4/ B handles the 2 damage by not preventing them and going to torpor.

At step 3, an effect has been queued after the combat ends. So B is in torpor, and a combat between A and the top crypt card occurs.
The fact that B goes to torpor doesn't disrupt a combat between A and another vampire and doesn't end the action right away.

If B is the acting minion, and plays Illusions of the Kindred before A plays Outside the Hourglass, then combat ends due to IotK and A doesn't have the opportunity to play OtH against B.

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 04 Jan 2018 10:34 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sambomb, beslin igor, kschaefer

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04 Jan 2018 11:26 #84725 by Kuruc
Hi,
I'm confused, I thought the strike: combat end is being evaluated immediately when it's played and therefore prior to the Outside the Hourglass.

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