file Illusions of the Kindred VS Outside the Hourglass

04 Jan 2018 12:05 #84728 by Sambomb
What resolve first, can A play amaranth before the new combat start therefore be burned at the bloodhunt referendum and stopping the new combat?
Can A play a Telepathic Tracking preventing the new combat ? If possible, the combat ends immediately because the opposing minion isn’t ready anymore or there is a timing to play cards like taste of vitae, disarm, amaranth?

Based on the previous clarification www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/76197-still-confused-about-multiple-outside-the-hourglasses#83682

1/ A plays Outside the Hourglass.
2/ A passes the impulse.
3/ B plays Illusions of the Kindred (now 0 blood). Combat ends but there's still 2 damage to handle (groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/UIFzsu-Zips/fafEXIwVn08J)
4/ B handles the 2 damage by not preventing them and going to torpor.

At step 3, an effect has been queued after the combat ends. So B is in torpor, and a combat between A and the top crypt card occurs.
The fact that B goes to torpor doesn't disrupt a combat between A and another vampire and doesn't end the action right away.

If B is the acting minion, and plays Illusions of the Kindred before A plays Outside the Hourglass, then combat ends due to IotK and A doesn't have the opportunity to play OtH against B.


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04 Jan 2018 14:06 #84731 by Ankha

Hi,
I'm confused, I thought the strike: combat end is being evaluated immediately when it's played and therefore prior to the Outside the Hourglass.

It is, but there's still 2 damage to resolve.
See also the precedent with Weather Control + Elysium: The Arboreteum (or Alpha Glint, or Illusions of the Kindred)
groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/UIFzsu-Zips/fafEXIwVn08J

>So vamp A plays a Weather Control and vamp B plays a Illusions of the
>Kindred or Alpha Glint, does vamp B still take the damage?
Both vampire A and vampire B (and any retainers) take the damage.

# Weather Control's damage will occur even if combat is subsequently
ended before range (by Mariel or Elysium: Arboretum, e.g.) [LSJ
19971110]


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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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04 Jan 2018 14:24 #84732 by Kuruc
Oh, so when the damage comes from a retainer or it's environmental damage, it still applies even if the opposing vampire take strikes: combat end? So the strike: combat end will only be protected from other damage from strikes (hand damage/ melee damage/gun/etc...)? Does it work in the case of the carrion crows?

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04 Jan 2018 14:41 #84733 by Sambomb
None of these cards are strikes.

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04 Jan 2018 15:03 #84734 by Kuruc
So if damage is taken sooner than normal strike, it is still applied after the strike: combat end. Out of the fight. So Carrion crows isn´t enviromental damage?

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04 Jan 2018 16:17 #84737 by Sambomb
Only if the damage is originated from a strike or is explicit, the damage is from the minion, everything else is environmental.

The carrion damage is at press step that never happen if a strike combat ends occurs.

The OtH damage happen before maneuver, the impulse move to the opposing minion to resolve the damage, any viable card/effect can be used then including ItK that ends the combat but the damage still have to be resolved.
@Ankha after ItK ( combat ends ) can B play a combat card to prevent the damage since the combat already ended?

Don’t mix the steps of combat, each one occur in sequence and each card is resolved as played.

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