file Vampire reboot more likely than new sets?

12 Nov 2015 12:26 #74239 by elotar

Juggernaut1981 wrote: Elotar,
I guess you didn't read it carefully then.


Obviously. Rulebook is not a good way of presenting the game. Do you have some brief description of it? What changes do you make to VtES and why do you think they are needed?

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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12 Nov 2015 20:06 - 12 Nov 2015 20:07 #74241 by Juggernaut1981
Easy summary:

- Gain VPs by methods other than Ousting
- Central Deck of cards which would include many of the traditional 'masters' and 'events'
- No blood
- Disciplines from 1 to 6
- [DISC] 5 lets you play 5 [DISC] cards during any action
- Combat is not restricted to 1v1 but can be many v many
- No master cards
- Changed methods for getting out Vampires
- Changed layout of cards (mockups are included)
- Antitribbu are divided by Sect while remaining in clan
- Only Justicar, IC, Regent and Kholo are contested titles
- Each sect has a 'Domain Level' title (Prince, Archbishop, Baron, Lord)
- General overhaul of combat and damage
...

That's a short list. So I'm pretty sure you didn't read it.

Card design changes would be included as well. Cards would have usually one play option, or maybe 2 based on the Vampire's Age.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
www.halflingcaravangames.com.au/
Last edit: 12 Nov 2015 20:07 by Juggernaut1981.

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12 Nov 2015 21:30 - 12 Nov 2015 22:34 #74242 by CalibanX
I've tinkered with a redone version of vtes too.

In my version, Torpor is limited to the mechanics of aggravated damage. So if a vampire is at 0 blood and takes any damage, it would be Burned. Only aggravated damage would send vamps to torpor. Rescuing and Diablerie rules would be the same as normal. This one change would, I think, greatly shorten games and make combat scary and deadly as it should be. Then, to balance this change, I buffed the Hunting Grounds to make them clan specific and easier to refill vamps' blood with. The text would be something like: "Tap X Brujah vampires you control on your Master phase. Each tapped vampire gains 1 blood from the blood bank". This would make Hunting grounds a safe way for your vamps to get blood without having to do it the riskier way as a blockable action. This would make Hunting grounds super important to help vamps survive combat and also make stealth decks more fearsome as they would easily be able to arson them. I haven't tested these ideas to know if they'd work or not, but there's no reason to think that it's simply impossible to improve upon vtes.

These are all just ideas for different ways things might be done in a rebooted game. I don't think vtes fans should feel threatened by them or assume that no other possible manifestation of the game could ever be as enjoyable as it's current form. No one wants a Pokemon version of vtes, but a streamlined version of the game could, if done properly, be just as fun as vtes and have the benefit of being sold at games stores, easier to learn, and shorter to play. All of which would probably attract more new players than just releasing more sets for us old players.
Last edit: 12 Nov 2015 22:34 by CalibanX.

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13 Nov 2015 06:05 #74243 by alek

Easy summary:

- Gain VPs by methods other than Ousting
- Central Deck of cards which would include many of the traditional 'masters' and 'events'
- No blood
- Disciplines from 1 to 6
- [DISC] 5 lets you play 5 [DISC] cards during any action
- Combat is not restricted to 1v1 but can be many v many
- No master cards
- Changed methods for getting out Vampires
- Changed layout of cards (mockups are included)
- Antitribbu are divided by Sect while remaining in clan
- Only Justicar, IC, Regent and Kholo are contested titles
- Each sect has a 'Domain Level' title (Prince, Archbishop, Baron, Lord)
- General overhaul of combat and damage
...

to me it sounds like more complicated version instead of streamlined. Has it 2-player variant?

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13 Nov 2015 07:03 - 13 Nov 2015 07:04 #74244 by GreyB
Only things I would change are:
- Ditch research area
- Ditch aye/orun or tokenize it (no more cards representing aye/orun but counters)
- Fix card wording on trouble cards
- a.) 1 health system for vampires/imbued/allies no distinction between blood/life
- b.) Ditch imbueds alltogether...
- Fix Dominate by adding a bit more power to other disciplines., maybe not deflection/bleed type cards but alternatives, be creative.

The VTES game system is not hard, it's a bit more complex than MtG and needs no changing.
Complexity is added through cards, most complexity complaints are mostly about how cards interact with the rules. When/if VTES ever sees a reprint, more care should be taken to see if cards add more unneeded complexity to the game as should've been done with the Imbued and Laibon sets (and KMW to an extend, ie. redlist).

Even though it was not bad with Anarchs, designers need to prevent adding rules to the rulebook to support a set. Added complexity should be limited and only done through cards as the cards are an extension to the rules and provide at hand clarification. Anarchs rule addition was an exception, not the rule as following sets proved.

VTES needs to be pruned of obsolete useless rules and complexity added by sets, not changed.
Go back to basics, which was the success factor of VTES.

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
Last edit: 13 Nov 2015 07:04 by GreyB. Reason: addition

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13 Nov 2015 07:07 #74245 by GreyB
And please no reboot... stop talking about it... A reboot with simpler rules is a NEW GAME.
I don't mind a new game, but it's a waste to make a weaker version of VTES.
If paradox makes a new WoD card game, go all out, include all elements: (werewolf, vampires, mages, wraiths, mummies) with simple rules and lots of intrigue. Just don't aim for a VTES lite...

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
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