Vampire reboot more likely than new sets?

elotar wrote:

Because having small numbers on cards, limiting comparability of vampires, vithout any meaningful reason, is idiotic.

elotar wrote:

but the solution "this vampires can't be played with each other just becouse" is still dumb.

James wrote:

>I fully agree with you on this. Dial-a-vamp will lead to broken situations,
>unless (perhaps) all clans have access to a Dial-a-vamp crypt.
No, you still miss the point.

The point (with regards) is not whether a *clan* has access to dial-a-
vamp. This is *NOT* related to clans.


As LSJ has pointed out, the crypt has *always* been designed as a
restriction on what you can do. (Hence, uniqueness, contesting with
other Methuselahs, minimum sizes, the slowness of sucking blood back
(this wasn't actually in some drafts) and so on.)

It is not hard to imagine a V:TES where you took (say) six pretty, but
blank, vampire cards and 24 discipline master cards and built your own
crypt.

By contrast, the crypt is a powerful limiting agent.


If you can't find a vampire with daimonon/dominate/thanatosis (Ian
Forestal notwithstanding[0], the time and effort required to simulate
that and the random chance of deck shuffling (will you only get your
Samedi popping up? So put in a Recruitment, a Coroner's Contract etc.)
limit the overall effectiveness such a discipline combination could
have.

I think at some point (dai/dom/than aside), we've all sat down and said
"Oh, wouldn't it be nice if...." and then come up with a really cool
combo, involving some great cards. Then when you look at the vampires
available, it's a lot of work. No-one in that clan has the stealth, no-
one in that clan is really big enough to afford it, so it'll be a lot of
work to pull it off. Oh, there is that vampire over there, but it's a
bit expensive for just those inferior disciplines.

Thus the potential power of such combinations is limited, by careful
design relative to the card set.

LSJ has, repeatedly, pointed out that simply allocating X points of
disciplines, using the system most people see in Jyhad/V:TES, is not
enough. A card that said "4 capacity, pot cel for pro, Default bleed is
0" would be pretty balanced along most such costing schemes.

The combos they facilitate are also a hugely important balancing factor.

As dial-a-vamp becomes possible (in a non-grouping environment), the
balance that has been constructed over *years* becomes - piece by piece
- taken down. Whereas, previously, attempts were made so that with a
small, focused set of vampires, e.g. my Gangrel deck, which I've
constructed with a small investment of two to three hundred cards and
some trading, could succeed, dial-a-vamp practically demands clan
transparency.

You wouldn't be limited by discipline matches - those would be entirely
set aside, with the foundation of dial-a-vamp. Currently, you would
have to limit your use of the 'good' cards to the disciplines you can
find to bring out, or put in a lot of work to bring out. With dial-a-
vamp, you just go and pick and choose all the best cards from all the
best disciplines. Well, let's take Skin of Steel, Claws of the Dead,
Torn Signpost, Blood of Acid and Shadow Strike. A few Rewind Times can
knock around in the deck.

The *frightening* point with dial-a-vamp is not whether you keep the
clans balanced with regards one another, or the sects, or the
bloodlines. The major point is whether you keep the game balanced
*within itself*. Dial-a-vamp requires a standard escalation of power
levels to compensate and rewards the current suitcase players who will
be able to make all the outlandish combos that are, currently,
restricted.

Sure, you want to keep the Gangrel balanced next to the Lasombra next to
the Tzimisce. But, more important than whether one clan is more
powerful than another, you want to keep the *game* balanced.

Clan decks get the benefits of some interesting clan cards and a tight
focus of discipline. Out of clan decks get the benefits of some
interesting combos, at a cost, with less tight focus of vampires -
expensive, fewer of them, more fragile, more likely to "self-contest" in
the uncontrolled region, jam on skill cards etc.

When all combos are available easily, the out-of-clan decks lose a
strong balancing factor - that of difficulty - and the power level ups.


That's why it's not a clan thing, or even a sect thing, but a game
thing.

As more vamps become available, it'll become even more important to keep
the game balanced.


[0] The above is also one of the reasons why, in the past, I have argued
strongly against replicating Ian Forestal's ability on any vampire, when
it came up in a Damnan's hosted card.