Who Needs More Love? !Brujah, !Gangrel or !Nosferatu?

Jeff wrote:

bakija wrote:

I'm curious (anyone wanna look this up?) how many of these decks are "Gangrel Antitribu" decks, in the sense that the crypt is made up of mostly various !Gangrel, and how many of them are decks that have 5-6 of a single Anti-Gangrel (see: Una, Aksinya, or Enkidu) and otherwise aren't particularly Anti-Gangrelly.

I looked at the TWDA back to about 2005 and here's what I saw (no exact numbers because I was lazy):

With three exceptions, every deck featured either: Una, Aksinya, Enkidu, or Janey Pickman.

Two exceptions were decks which were Embrace hordes backed up by Leathery Hide.
One exception was a Sebastian Goulet bleed deck.

None of them were based on .

Technically, Goulet was based upon , so it counts as city gangrel.

Molay would be good, but his main problem is conditional rush versus unconditional rush and his high capacity. I would totally play him as 8 cap, but 9 cap require that additional turn and he is just not worth it.

echiang wrote:

Weenie gets you 2 votes (per minion) by using and burning Loki's Gift. Add in an Old Friends and that should be enough to pass various Crusade cards.

Well, except that the !Gangrel (or Sabbat vamps in general) crypt has no vampires 4 or smaller with PRO. And a large number of them without any protean at all.

Weenie PRO vote decks using Loki's Gift are totally solid. But tend to revolve around G1/2 Gangrel (you get Chandler 3 PRO, Dalyiah 4 PRO, and then Camille and Mirembe 5 PRO; the Sabbat start with Celeste 5 PRO and go up from there). And Being Camarilla. And eventually playing Parity Shift...

bakija wrote:

echiang wrote:

Weenie gets you 2 votes (per minion) by using and burning Loki's Gift. Add in an Old Friends and that should be enough to pass various Crusade cards.

Well, except that the !Gangrel (or Sabbat vamps in general) crypt has no vampires 4 or smaller with PRO. And a large number of them without any protean at all.

Weenie PRO vote decks using Loki's Gift are totally solid. But tend to revolve around G1/2 Gangrel (you get Chandler 3 PRO, Dalyiah 4 PRO, and then Camille and Mirembe 5 PRO; the Sabbat start with Celeste 5 PRO and go up from there). And Being Camarilla. And eventually playing Parity Shift...

Okay, maybe the weenie aspect doesn't work quite so well with them unless you are using skill cards (which is still feasible, especially with Lilith's Blessing).

The !Gangrel do have a strong lineup of mid-caps (two 5-caps, and five 6-caps all with ). You have Xendil Charmer, a Priscus for 7 pool as well as a 6-cap Bishop, City Gangrel Connections, and Powerbase: Madrid. Your primary course of action is to use Loki's Gift to get the Crusades, but even if you are facing a vote-heavy environment, you could use Xendil to play Bloodbaths for extra votes.

On the other hand, G1/G2 have Gangrel Justicar to get many votes, and sabbat titles are just for votes - camarilla titles give you parity shift, camarilla segregation and domain (not to mention dreaded 1st tradition and temptation of greater power).

Sabbat politics isn't nearly as good as Camarilla ones, but they're hardly useless.

Powerbase: Madrid is a very good card (and far better than Elysium: The Palace of Versailles). Dia de los Muertos gives you an automatic pass for one vote (hopefully a Crusade). If you play larger vampires, Cardinal Benediction is often easier to pass than a Justicar vote, plus you can make multiple vampires of the same clan Cardinals (as opposed to the unique clan Justicar title). Camarilla have nothing remotely similar to Black Forest Base (2 free pool a turn for you and your Sabbat allies). I think Bloodbath and Blood Siege are underplayed, but have potentially strong uses as well.