Expansion Update

KevinM wrote:

Brum wrote:

I think that if we ever have proxies, people will be happy to give that away in order to have a company pick the game.

You *really* believe that all these players that now have a dozen Enkil Cog, ten dozen Villein, and a hundred Deep Song and going to be "happy" to shred them and purchase them from the new owner of VTES? Really?

I can only speak for myself, but If I were to use proxies, I would be happy to go shred them once the game is published again.

direwolf wrote:

KevinM wrote:

Brum wrote:

I think that if we ever have proxies, people will be happy to give that away in order to have a company pick the game.

You *really* believe that all these players that now have a dozen Enkil Cog, ten dozen Villein, and a hundred Deep Song and going to be "happy" to shred them and purchase them from the new owner of VTES? Really?

I can only speak for myself, but If I were to use proxies, I would be happy to go shred them once the game is published again.

I think that it would be a fair generalization to say that this would be the case for most people interested in proxies and the continuation of the game.

at this point i think its still too early to talk about proxies beyond your own playing group, lets start this discussion after a year or two when more people might be amenable to it.

Have anybody seen any new player, who doesn't join the game because enkil cog costs too much? For new players small cardpool (2 starters, several boosters e t.s.) is a great advantage, nobody will join the game if first meeting with the cards will be ARDB base. The argument, that allowing of proxies will open the game for hordes of new players is complete crap.

Individual cards means very little in overall performance of the player, and, as it was mentioned a hundred times already, anybody can borrow several rares for tournament if he thinks that he really needs them, so argument, that it’s a barrier for tournament play is crap also.

But, for example, in my playgroup there are great number of old players, who will left the game if the proxies will be allowed. For somebody it’s just estetically not pleasant to play with a pieces of paper, somebody thinks that “chase” is a part of the game, somebody thinks that proxies are bad just because.

KevinM wrote:

The prices of the vast majority of cards havent' risen significantly since when KoT and when HTTB hit the street. I know, because I pay careful attention to eBay. It's a hobby of mine and has been for a long time.

Villein has been $4-8 since it was printed, fr.ex. New Carthage, Monastery of Shadows, etc. haven't risen significantly since the set was printed. Enkil Cog has gone up *slightly* but it's a fringe card, and it's your job as an expert player to explain this to your players. And loan them your (or one of your player's) Enkil Cog when they'd like to try one in their tournament deck. Summon History has gone through the roof, but who the hell cares?

The majority of one's card needs can be obtained by spending a few hundred bucks on a few booster and starter boxes, and then doing some trading will bring one up to about 80-90% of all the cards that one will need to make a dozen good, quality tournament decks. If someone isn't willing to make that investment in the game, then I don't have much sympathy for them.

Yes, things are somewhat different now that the game isn't in-print anymore. But boxes are still out there, they are still for sale, and if someone didn't get them before then I suppose I shouldn't hold out any hope that they are going to spend money to obtain any cards now. But why should I expect anything from these pro-proxy leeches other than fair weather play and then a run back into the hills when someone buys the game expecting the players to, once again, invest money in buying boxes, after the VEKN makes formerly-legal proxies illegal?

Enough with the fantasy that anyone is going to bother buying the game. The only reason that was relevant anyway, is that we wouldn't get company support for tournaments that permitted proxies. I think it is high time we level the playing field and allow for a more competitive tournament environment.

And kindly take your characterization of pro-proxy players as leeches, and shove it. I don't want free cards, I want a perfectly level playing field.

Dorrinal wrote:

And kindly take your characterization of pro-proxy players as leeches, and shove it. I don't want free cards, I want a perfectly level playing field.

I suggest you then go try out Chess and Go.