What would you like to see in a new expansion?

Ohlmann wrote:

Your affirmation on group 5 is a bit humorous, there is two gr5 Tzimisce, one of which that is pretty correct at the least

Without that, you should better talk like Isaak, because you don't really have strong argument citing one vampire, without any other consideration. What if my deck don't recruit warghoul ? Or desesperately need to get some action throught, like the aforementionned Nightmare curse ?

I responsed to the argument about War Ghouls in particular. Nightmare curse isn't even an argument for Tzimisce. It's an argument for . If you play that card you don't pick Tzimisce, you pick specialized vampires that just might happen to be a Tzimisce.

What I think Isaak is saying is that as a clan using clan disciplines. Group 4+5 don't hold a candle to group 2+3. If the older vampires didn't exist the newer would be considered OK'ish but the reality is that gr 2+3 do exist.

Most gr 4+5 vamps atleast follow the formula [number of clan disciplines] == [capacity-1]. Which is a useful formula up to cap 7. I can count six vamps that obey that formula or better.

Whereas gr 2+3 has NINE vamps where two of them has the same discipline count as capacity!

Discipline count is of course not everything, we must also consider special abilities and gr 4+5 has some really good abilities like two vamps with +stealth and several vamps with OK-ish abilities like ability to burn locations and unblockable actions against weenies but nothing that offset the tremendous advantage that gr 2+3 has in disciplines.

It just feels like gr 4+5 was designed with off-clan disciplines in mind. Obfuscate, Chimistry, Fortitude and possibly Protean and if you wanna build decks based with those then yeah, gr 4+5 might be your thing but as a clan with clan disciplines gr 4+5 is trash.

You do understand that, with 2 vampires in group 5, the group 4-5 is never used because it is unfinished ?

Yo ucan compare 3-4 to 2-3, or simply 2 to 4. But comparing 5 is meaningless

For nightmare curse, you should try to understand. Nightmare curse is an *example*. A powerful forward action accessible to a bunch of tzimisce, that can take use from Mind of the wild and have been cited already. It's not the main argument, I.E. if you really want to get your action through the group 4 will provide you with it, not the group 2. In addition, it's to show that gr2 cannot do everything.

And the "tremendous" advantage in discipline does not seem too tremendous for me, I must admit. Yes, they are somewhat less in-discipline at gr4, and especially less vampire with both ani and aus. It is not a death sentence or a superior proof to uselessness.

Actually, I think this debate " are tzimisce a crappy clan or not?", is quite sterile and that is why I will try to talk about stg else.

What about my ideas of cards? Of mechanics, of "all unique or 1 per game cards" expansion?

A little résumé :

1/ build a combat designed crypt for lasombras, why not based on a uta kovacs-like vampire?
and/or a third black hand lasombra who can do the job as well as an assamite.
2/ Open a "new" way to oust your prey for certain clan without titles, and bleed disciplines : kill vampires. I propose cards like bonus of +xbleed when x is the number of vamps in torpor.
Hey! I just got an idea : what about a card that makes small vamps pop up because of the lack of vampires controlled by your predator and prey? "when the cat is away..." : put X 1-cap vampires in play where x is the number of vampires in torpor controlled by your prey.

3/ next expansion could be composed only by unique cards or cards playable once a game. This is to avoid problems about pdf format.

aria wrote:

1/ build a combat designed crypt for lasombras, why not based on a uta kovacs-like vampire?
and/or a third black hand lasombra who can do the job as well as an assamite.

Exactly as important as knowing why (some) people think gr2 tzimisce rules the gr4 tzimisce, since in both case we talk about filling an additional group.

For the Black Hand group, I believe there is some quota ; also, Black hand is not primary a Lasombra organization while they have two very powerful groupe 5 black hand ; the only problem they have for you being that they aren't the same as gr3. Wich is a good thing.

aria wrote:

2/ Open a "new" way to oust your prey for certain clan without titles, and bleed disciplines : kill vampires. I propose cards like bonus of +xbleed when x is the number of vamps in torpor.
Hey! I just got an idea : what about a card that makes small vamps pop up because of the lack of vampires controlled by your predator and prey? "when the cat is away..." : put X 1-cap vampires in play where x is the number of vampires in torpor controlled by your prey.

You mean, like Dragonbound of Codex of Edenic Groundskeeper ? Pardon the tone, it may be a valid concern, but card to support this do exist ; they just does not work too well compared to good old Govern. So adding more in the same model may not work, there is surely a deeper cause.

aria wrote:

3/ next expansion could be composed only by unique cards or cards playable once a game. This is to avoid problems about pdf format.

Extremely bad idea. Resolving at least some of the problem in a small extension is already pretty hard ; adding another restriction for library card is a good way to faiL

2/ Open a "new" way to oust your prey for certain clan without titles, and bleed disciplines : kill vampires. I propose cards like bonus of +xbleed when x is the number of vamps in torpor.
Hey! I just got an idea : what about a card that makes small vamps pop up because of the lack of vampires controlled by your predator and prey? "when the cat is away..." : put X 1-cap vampires in play where x is the number of vampires in torpor controlled by your prey.

As Ohlann already stated such cards already exists. Additionally there is no reason now to help combat decks any more. While it was needed some time ago, now, combat is in best shape ever. Two last EC was won by combat decks, in EC Warsaw final, 3 out of 5 decks were combat ones.

3/ next expansion could be composed only by unique cards or cards playable once a game. This is to avoid problems about pdf format.

I don't get it. What kind of problems it would fix?

By combat deck you mean animalism combat with 3 cards : deep song ( amazing card, ANI did not need that one) carrion crows and aid from bats, which are existing for 15 years? Come on, we all have tried to win with dragonbound, tension, codex and all these crapy cards when playing !gangrel deck. We did not win a tournament except with enkidu or una.

a part of players argue that, with a pdf format, you will introduce many copies of the cards, and if just one is over designed, we will see plenty of that. If this card is unique or usable 1 each game, it solves the problem.