Ideas for crypt Sabbat cards

Non-existant user wrote:

What you meant for the Connected is probably "Slave: Unique Malkavian Antitribu". Since they are themselves, one of them alone is enough to fulfill th Slave requirement and I don't think that was the idea.

An alternative would be to drop the slave trait, and instead give them wording similar to Aabbt Kindred; "... cannot perform actions unless you control a ready unique Malkavian Antitribu".

Pendargon wrote:

Mael wrote:

Pendargon wrote:

img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg

Imho, too good discipline spread. FOR or THA and/or pro has to go.

She is an 11 cap. Fakir al Sidi has got all 3 of those disciplines at superior already, albeit without any title.

Sure, but she has an in-built bleed for 3, 4 votes, and her other disciplines are DOM and OBT and POT.
Now, in my book, DOM OBT beats ANI abo any day.
It's the corelation of disciplines, she has both access to easy multiacting via freak drives, Magic of the smiths/rutors, strong political/stealt/bleed angle, and can even wreck your face with POT/FOR/THA combat paired with aggravated hands from pro.

She does everything a bit too well. She might be next Stanislava (which can fight if needed), are we sure we want that?

Well, put it this way, the last time I saw an 11 cap played that didn't have superior Presence was around 7 sets ago. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd need to see it in action before I'll be convinced.


My further thoughts on the other cards:

Guillermo Toro
By my reading, as printed, he can burn 4 blood to inflict 2 damage, or 6 for 3 damage, is this deliberate?
If not, or if I'm reading it wrong, than I think 1 blood would be better.

Ildaras
Is there any reason for the phrasing of this card text not to be copied from "Little Tailor of Prague"?
When Ildaras recruits an ally or employs a retainer, the cost is reduced by one blood or pool.

Imre Bach
Should be a 7 cap. Even as a 7 cap, his weak ability and lack of Animilism will probably keep him from seeing much play.

Jenare
A minor niggle only, Is there any reason not to simply say "+1 stealth" on the card instead of that whole sentence?
I know it's copied from Jost, but many vampires since then have been printed with a simple "+1 stealth".

Kanira
She is missing the group symbol, I presume this is an error?
8 points of disciplines and no ability would be more appropriate for a 7 cap (compare Lord Vauxhall or Marge Khan). Most similar cost non-titled vampires have some ability text.

Lady Bing Qing
As Pendargon already said about the text. Also, if you look at the cost of Antonio d`Erlette, he get's his ability basically for free. Lady Bing Qing is paying quite a lot for hers as a 10 cap with no title, only 8 points of disciplines, and no other abilities. +1 bleed might be appropriate to balance it.

Little Linda
".... capacity 2 or less" would be better in my opinion. It's difficult to say an appropriate cost for such an ability without testing.

Lord of Madness
I'm not sure on this one as this is a card that would only ever be used in a deck that was designed around it specifically.

Lucia Cortes
I suspect her ability should be for "Abyssal Hunter", I can't find any card called "Shadow of the Abyss".
I would be inclined to make her ability work with any ally requiring Lasombra or Obtenebration (similar to Little Tailor of Prague's ability) so it could be used with future cards printed.
When Lucia recruits an ally that requires Lasombra or Obtenebration, the cost is reduced by one blood or up to two pool.
Also, I particularly like this artwork

Mad Carrion
I'm not sure about his ability. On the one hand, it doesn't help to put vampires into torpor, on the other hand, it can hurt people he can't normally damage (eg wraiths and people who have played CE). Overall I don't think he's quite worth the cost. Maybe if you dropped the blood cost from his maneuver special.

Marianne
Compare her to other 8 caps with +1 strength, she is missing either a point of disciplines, a minor title, or an ability.
Also, her appearence is completely unacceptable for a Nosferatu

Marius the Gambler
Again I agree with Pendargon about this one. Possibly make it a coin toss instead, which would also answer Karo's 'tie?' question. As his ability can backfire, I'm not sure about the cost. Possibly give him a conditional benefit as well (or drop his cost and give him a conditional drawback).

Mint
As worded, that would count as his additional strike for the round. If this is deliberate, than I think 1 blood would be a fairer cost.

Nikx
Again I think 1 blood would be a fairer cost. Compare this to the abilities on other 7 cap vampires with similar amounts of disciplines and no titles.

Oceane Mourchois
She should be a 9 cap or have an additional ability (compare Marino Reymundo Vasquez or Rachel Brandywine)

Plague Doctor
I'm not sure we need another 6 cap Priscus. No real issue with this card though.

Red Skull
He has the stats of a 6 cap.

Rotted Gentleman
Starting combats with 10 cap vampires is a notoriously bad idea, so I'm not sure if his special is quite good enough. It might be.

Scorpion
Is too expensive for 8 points of disciplines and a conditional rush. See other 9 caps with a built in rush; Massassi and Nangila Were have no restriction, Jacques Molay and Ignazio Giovanni have a restriction but also have +1 strength. All 4 of those have as many or 1 more points of disciplines.

Shanon
I would suggest changing her ability to only work when ready.

The Hill
He is more than a little similar to Mitru the Hunter

Tom Mercer
He should have 1 extra point of discipline if his special can only work once each game. My recommendation is change it to once each turn or add basic Potence.

Trevor McInerny
Should be an Archbishop or have an additional ability.

Tristan
Interesting but her ability is unclear. Is it supposed to be useable in any combat or just combats involving her? I would guess the former but it should be stated. The fact that the damage doesn't happen until after the combat has ended makes her ability difficult to use effectively, so I'm not sure if it's priced correctly.

Varvara Koroleva
Oddly I had the same idea for an ability on a !Tremere, although I had it costing 1 blood to use and gave it a younger non-titled vampire. Nothing really to say about altering this card, just felt like sharing that.


Anyway, as I said, overall I like what you've done here.
The artwork is mostly good, a few I don't particularly like but no worse than on some published cards.
If there's any cards I didn't mention above or in my previous post it's because I think they don't need any modification.
All the above is of course just my opinion and you are free to ignore or disregard it as you wish.

Here are my thoughts, if I didn't comment on a particular one then that one was ok.

Amanda: Overcosted, should either be 9 cap or have +1 bleed.

Amaroo: Overcosted, should be 7 cap.

Amy: Ok, but would prefer if she wouldn't have celerity and just have flat out +1 stealth

Beatrix: Overcosted, would recommend making her archbishop or priscus with flat out +1 intercept.

Berg: I would make the ability only cost 1 blood, but he is about right.

Carles: Too narrow special, remove the having edge requirement and make it just may burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed once per action.

Dame: A bit overcosted, should have superior Thanatosis.

Daniel: A bit overcosted, should be archbishop.

Dascot: Overcosted, should have superior Animalism.

Dean: Needs some work to be useful, I suggest giving him -1 stealth instead of strength, and superior Animalism.

Estrella: Should only take 1 action to remove the counter, its a bit too harsh now.

Flavia: Perhaps a bit undercosted, would likely remove the necromancy.

Guillermo: A bit too weak, make the special either cost 1 blood, or inflict 2 damage, and either way, make it also work on allies.

Ildaras: Too weak, I would recommend making him 8 cap and removing the two base level discplines.

Imre: Overcosted. Should either be 7 cap, or have basic animalism also.

Kanira: Overcosted. Should either be 7 cap or have some decent special.

Lady Bing: Way overcosted, I would suggest making her priscus with +1 bleed, then she would be about right.

Lord of Madness: Way overcosted, should be 8 cap.

Lucia: Overcosted, should be 6 cap, Infernal is serious drawback.

Mad Carrion: Overcosted, the manuever should be free.

Marianne: Slightly overcosted, should be bishop or have some other minor special.

Marius: Overcosted, should be 6 cap.

Mint: Special is way too expensive for a vampire with superior celerity anyway, should be free optional additional strike on first round.

Nikx: Overcosted, should be just flat out +1 intercept all the time.

Red Skull: Overcosted, should be 6 cap.

Rotted Gentleman: Is missing something, would either make him Archbishop/Priscus/Cardinal, or give him +1 strength or bleed.

Scorpion: Too narrow special, should be either 'camarilla vampire' or 'titled vampire' instead of just 'prince'. Also should probably have +1 Strength.

Shanon: Should steal from prey, not predator, and only be from referendums you call.

Tom Mercer: Special shouldn't be once per game, but just have the 'requirements and costs apply' clause, its already 0 stealth action anyway.

Trevor: Should be archbishop

Tristan: Overcosted. Should either be 6 cap or have one more point in discplines.

Varvara: Overcosted, should have +1 bleed.

First thank you very much everyone for the ideas, You have given me some great ideas for editing the vampires.

Mael, I chose 6 group because it is the group that following the 5 as a complement to the crypt 5 and 6, Group 5 and have enough help with the 4. Yes, I like Black Hand but I I don´t know very well and I preferer create pure Sabbat.

Juggernaut1981, I like Kindred Madman for Connected to the madness ^^, you are right, we should put a name to Lord of Madness, any suggestions?


and changes:



Amanda: “Sabbat Cardinal: If Amanda is ready during your discard phase, Amanda may burn 2 blood to discard two additional card.”

Amaroo- :: :: :: :: "Sabbat: +1 bleed"

Dame: :: ::

Guillermo Toro "Sabbat: If Guillermo is ready and you are being bleed by a younger vampire Guillermo may burn 1 blood to inflict 1 damage on the acting vampire, if the acting is a Ally Guillermo may burn 2 blood to inflict 1 damage on this acting minion."

Irme Bach: "Sabbat Archishop of Berlin: Irme Bach gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Ventrue.

Little Linda: Sabbat Archbishop of Milan: As a +1 stealh action, Little Linda may burn a vampire of capacity 3 or less.

Daniela- "Sabbat: As a action, Daniela may allow you take control of a younger Toreador antitribu until your next untap phase"

Beatrix- "Sabbat: During your discard phase, Beatrix can burn 2 blood to get +2 intercept until your next untap phase.

Carles- "Sabbat: During your untap phase, if you control the edge, Carles can burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed for the turn.

Daniel: "Sabbat: Archbishop of "city""

Dean: "Sabbat: Dean can enter combat with a younger vampire as a (d)action. -1 strength" .

Lorraine-

Rotted Gentleman: "Sabbat: Once each round Rotted Gentleman may burn 1 blood to cancel a combat card"

Scorpion: "Sabbat: Scorpion can enter combat with a Titled Camarilla vampire as a action if this action is successful Scorpion gets and aditional strike."

Beryl- "Sabbat: Once during your minion phase Beryl may burn 1 blood to untap a younger vampire you control".

Connected to the Madness / Kindred Madman- "Sabbat. Malkavian antitribu Slave. ((Name)) cannot be a Slave to a non-unique vampire. ((Name)) may tap to give another Malkavian antitribu +1 strength for the current action, only usable before combat. -1 bleed."

Dascot thousand arms-

Estrella- "Sabbat: Estrella may put a shadow counter on a vampire controlled by your predator or prey as a action. That vampire may burn the shadow conster as an action; When a vampire with a shadow counter declares an action, they transfer 1 blood to Estrella. +2 bleed".

Ildaras: "Sabbat: Allies and retainers cost Ildaras 1 less blood or pool (but never less than 0 blood or pool". +1 strength.

Lady Bing Qing: "Sabbat: While Lady bing Qing is ready, you may spend four transfers to search your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a Zombie Ally or retainer she could recuit. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount at superior discipline (pay cost as normal) +1 bleed"

Mint- "Once per combat, Mint may burn 2 blood to get an additional strike that does not count against the limit to additional strikes." That was my original idea was I wrote it because so

Nikx- "Sabbat: Once each action, Nikx may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept and optional maneuver if the block is successful"

Red Skull - ---- I reviewed the collection I noticed that there are too nosfis with protean jejeje

Shanon- "Sabbat: When a referendum called by a vampire you control other than Shanon passes Shanon may burn a blood to give you 1 pool from the blood bank."

Tom Mercer- "Sabbat: Tom may recruit an ally or retainer from your ashheap that requires or costing an additional blood or pool once per turn."

Tristan- "Sabbat: When a minion you control is about to enter combat, you may tap Tristan to deal 2 damage to every minion and retainer in the combat."

Kanira: Gruop 6 -

Lucia Cortes- "Sabbat: Nocturn, Shadow of the Abyss and Abyssal Hunter cost Lucia Cortes 1 less blood or 2 less pool to employ or recruit. Infernal

And this is Shadow of the Abyss:

img685.imageshack.us/img685/1018/shadowoftheabyss.jpg

Oceane Mourchois- Sabbat: Archbishop of Nantes: During a referendum, Oceane may burn a card that requires Obtenebration from your hand to gain two votes. +1 bleed

Red Skull-

The Hill- I did not know Mitru the Hunter jejeje, “Sabbat: Cards that requier Clerery cost 1 less blood to play, and before range his may burn 2 blood to sets the range for this round."

Trevor McInerny- Sabbat Archbishop of "City"

Kanira: “Sabbat: Karina ay search your library (shuffle afterward) for any Ally card and move that card to your hand as a +1 stealth action.

Mad Carrion: After combat with Mad Carrion, the opposing VAMPIRE burn 1 blood. Mad Carrion gets an optional maneuver in the first rond of combat.

Just as a general thing, I know this is not a "child's theme game" but can we keep the boobs out? I dunno, I just tend to find that 'showing a lot' on CCG cards just makes it feel tacky and not dark/black/horror.

Dolphin Black disagrees.
I think it's more about what makes a card fit in the WoD rather than what makes itnot belong to that place.
Leather, darkness, fangs, pale aspect => good
shiny, cute, in the daylight => not exactly the best artwork

I understand Pascal that there are plenty of "not PG" vampire cards out there. Dolphin, Gabrielle di Righetti, etc. I just really dislike the more blatant end of it (e.g. Gabrielle) like the art that Inyor has chosen for Shadow of the Abyss. I think it could be done more effectively without having breasts front-and-centre of the artwork. Feels a bit tacky.