Extending the "Any" Grouping. Thoughts ?

Reyda wrote:

correct me if i'm wrong but it's not written on GR1 vampires either

It is printed on all of the group 1 vampires that were reprinted in the 10th Anniversary tins....

i'd love to try the fida'i with Amaravati.

Reyda wrote:

It's a change in the game to say " Non unique vampires are thematically groupless so they can fit in other groupings and allow the blooming of new strategies".

Some are, like Fida'i (it's the name of every newly embraced assamite)

Some aren't, like the Aabt Kindred ; only Nefertiti know how to embrace them, so it make sense they share a group.

Some are less clear cut :
* tupdog and grotesques are likely to be crafted by only one or two vampires, in which case they are linked to a group, but maybe a lot of people know how to and/or there is so much stockpiles of them that Tremere cannot run out of them.
* the horde seem thematically linked to the Unnamed, but it's hard to know

After that, there is power level problems. Tupdog are the most powerful one, and useable as crypt padding to boot, and the hordes seem the second most powerful, but I don't think they will cause that much trouble, since hordes are infernal anyway.

After the discussion here, my opinion (of base player) would be to give a try to groupless Fida'i, Hordes, and Grotesque, if only because Hordes seem to allow more variety to Baali deck, and Fida'i and Grotesques are relatively weak.

Reyda wrote:

And for Angelo : I'd like to point that he is perfectly playble where he is, his grouping allowing him to be played with 3 different circles already. If you make him "any grouping", odds are he will not benefit blood brothers but merely become another crypt filler for CEL/FOR decks. Which would just trump the purpose of this "any grouping" change proposal for non-unique, i repeat, non-unique vampires.

Sorry if I look a little rude, I assure you that in real life I'm the coolest guy I know(TM)

I wouldn't say Angelo worked perfectly where he is - I think like Khem advanced he got screwed designer intent versus actual printed cards.
Having him stuck in one grouping limits future Bloodbrothers to be able use him (if there were any) and means Kieve can't benefit if they so chose. I don't think the disc. spread is uncommon enough at that capacity for it to matter especially as he's only got pot

Maybe Reyda is the second coolest guy I know....

Squidalot wrote:

I wouldn't say Angelo worked perfectly where he is - I think like Khem advanced he got screwed designer intent versus actual printed cards.
Having him stuck in one grouping limits future Bloodbrothers to be able use him (if there were any) and means Kieve can't benefit if they so chose. I don't think the disc. spread is uncommon enough at that capacity for it to matter especially as he's only got pot

Maybe Reyda is the second coolest guy I know....

I understand your opinion, but I worry much for the state of the game as it is now and the creative perspectives of using old crypts cards with grotesque or new crypt cards with fidai.
Angelo is really a secondary problem since it's already good (3 bb circles can benefit) and nothing can tell us that there will be new BB circles in a distant future. So, since the game is in static state, let's try to make the rules to keep it alive a bit
But to be honest i've already seen angelo side by side with Hrotulf in a CEL FOR walking stick deck. Pot was used for a couple of disarm, but as a surprise tool.

personally, i'd make Hordes GR6+2, not 'ANY'; wouldn't like them to get mixed up with Cybele's extra MPA.

for Angelo: ANY = ok. BloodBrothers *probably* won't break the bank anyway (even though the hermanas come awfully close). if it helps to make the BB more compatible, please do this!!
Grotesques: ANY (if that would make 'em any less crappy, by all means, please
Fidaï: ANY = ok. they might be interesting. they sure were prior to the rewriting of their text.