Imbuided - Dead or Alive?

By unbalanced in context of M94 and weenies, I, obviously, mean maximizing one aspect by sacrificing the others. This leads to some matchups being unwinnable by one side. It's fine in two player game like magic, where you can spend 10 minutes for a match and then switch decks/sideboard, it's very bad for 2-hour game of VtES, where loser will be sitting there doing nothing for a long time while 4 others will have suboptimal game on table with one player having free VP and 6 pool.

But this problems are mostly manageable by, like, playing VtES - there are countless ways to defend against bleed and to punish small vampires at both deck construction level and in actual play.

Imbueds, with some exception to allies vulnerabilities and weaknesses, are mostly balanced in this regard - some bleed, some combat, some defence. But you are playing with them in completely different way (I've already elaborated on this).

Have you played Preferans? Very popular in Russia (and very boring) card game.

And this is even worse, because with imbueds not only one not ready/unlucky player is out of normal game, but all four of them. Actually imbued player is also kind of out of normal game - he can't rescue crosstable, play politics and usually don't rush, so he is generally interacting only with his prey and predator.

Gehenna spam just make things worse, but it fits imbueds really well.

TwoRazorReign wrote:

gentlman's agreements lead...

Gentlman's agreements (as well as balance) got nothing to do with this topic - imbueds should go because of their alien to VtES way of playing.

elotar wrote:

TwoRazorReign wrote:

gentlman's agreements lead...

Gentlman's agreements (as well as balance) got nothing to do with this topic - imbueds should go because of their alien to VtES way of playing.

No, you said imbued were "one level more than" unbalanced previously. So, I'm saying in that thread about gentleman's agreements (a completely different thread about a completely different topic), you intimated that toolbox decks are a problem. Here's the exact quote:

"What problems with gentelmen's agreement I've witnessed - if you agree to not bring "aggressive" decks than the field start to dwindle to some slow useless tolboxy-combat monstrosities, which lazy hit each other for two hours with no satisfying result."

So unbalanced and aggressive Imbued decks are a problem, and balanced toolbox decks are a problem. What about this game is not a problem?

Balance problems is one level, imbued problem is other level. What is so hard to understand?

First one is easier, because it can possibly @be solved within frame of the game, imbueds can't - interaction with them breaks the flow of the game and there is nothing to do with it then remove them completely or continue suffering.

Balance problems is one level, imbued problem is other level. What is so hard to understand?

Well, that whole sentence. That's why I asked. Thanks for clearing that up though.

My final note here would be that imbued are problematic at the moment, but not for balance reasons per se. There are more problematic builds, but none of them rarely see tournament wins. Some reasons are hard to get original copies of cards (tupdogs for example), some are that people are (forced to) countering them with hate cards and silver bullets.

The latter is not doing the game a favour, as silver bullet design is not the best, but here we are.

There was some discussion once I recall when we were fiddling around the idea of a sideboard of five(ish) cards for tournaments, so that you could fiddle around with your silver bullets. It might give you a boost on 3rd round or final if you're playing against decks you've already seen. Another topic though...

VtES is sort of better than others for silver bullets - with discard phase and all. It's, obviously, not an ideal way to make the game balanced, but for me it's better, than sideboard