lightbulb Worthy reprints for new players and BCP-only format

27 Dec 2021 15:02 - 26 Mar 2022 10:29 #104295 by lip
[Updated to New Blood]

Hey there, VEKN members ☺︎

A few of us have been working on a list of archetypes for new players, essentially dealing with the question of "what do you play if you limit yourself to BCP cards?". Now that discussions about a BCP-only format (and events) are rising up, I thought it might be useful to do a small post listing the cards that might benefit from a reprint soon.

Keep in mind that this is not about getting the cards cheaper for old timers, it is about expanding the "BCP print" card pool. The whole point here is to list what cards could really expand the meta here, so I bring you two lists.

The first one lists reprints that open up new possibilities in terms of archetypes. In the sense that without them the archetype will probably not happen or be able to compete but, if they're here, it has a chance.
  • Concealed Weapon: Dmitra and :tore: decks. Having these .44 with no Conceal is sad
  • Archon Investigation: Hard to include in a precon (not very casual friendly), but important in so many higher level builds and key to overall game strategies and tournament builds. Ban or reprint, but neonates shouldn't have less access to the card than elders.
  • Sense the Savage Way: High cap :trem: (Gabrielle, Dr. Dee), Stanislava, :tzim: could use it
  • My Enemy's Enemy: Useful in all :AUS: decks
  • Terror Frenzy and Canine Horde: :ANI: combat modules have no option against weapons yet
  • Infernal Pursuit: :tore: guns builds, especially if The Parthenon gets a reprint
  • Aura Reading: :trem: and :tore: decks
  • The Parthenon: Since Ashur Tablets are available in Anthology, giving access to The Parthenon for a recursion Master module would open new possibilities
  • Reckless Agitation: Great option for anarch vote decks - so many new Barons, we need that one.
  • Alastor and Assault Rifle: It's a strong module, multiple KoT based decks could use it
  • Maris Streck: We have Lutz and Unmada already. On that note, the idea was submitted to do a "Blood shadowed court" kind of bundle, with key/interesting G4/5 vampires that miss in the KoT/HttB reprints. This would greatly expand the possibilities for neonates with only a single bundle print here.
  • Anarch Revolt: Good cards for multiple Anarch possibilities
  • Anathema: Banu Haqim and Xaviar/Stanislava might use it - other builds too, especially if the Alastor+Assault Rifle combination gets a print.
  • Abbot: Useful in :tzim: and !salu! decks, misses for top level builds there
  • Bum's Rush: Sure it's easy to find and we don't need a lot of those, but including it somewhere would mean it's playable in a BCP-only format. A few decks could benefit, especially :same:.
  • Rötschreck: A complicated card, sure, but a few decks could benefit from the option.
  • Graverobbing and Mind Rape: Hard to include (not great for casual), but key to Baltimore Purge builds, and a few others PoD Star ideas. Although a rename for MR might be in order.
  • Justicar Retribution: Great against ICs (Stanislava, Fanchon, Lutz), useful inclusion in many Camarilla Royalty decks
  • Gird Minions: Not a great card overall but will be missed for Clown Car decks
  • Piper: Warghoul and Nephandus builds might require it

The second list is about power level: some archetypes, although already decent and playable in a BCP-only setting, might benefit a lot from those reprints, and that might change the meta and bring it closer to the normal / classic / sanctioned meta.
  • Narrow Minds: :malk: and :fose: decks could benefit
  • Aranthebes, The Immortal: Useful in many decks, most played non-discipline minion card not yet reprinted
  • Ossian: Best non-clan bound ally not yet reprinted, has a spot in a few decks
  • Awe: :PRE: vote decks could really use it
  • Staredown: Cheap versatile combat defense for :PRE: decks
  • Redirection and Retribution: Two interesting defensive options that haven't yet been included. Useful in grinder archetypes, especially Ventrue decks
  • Wall Street Night: To complete the location-based intercept offer
  • The Uncoiling: Now that Scourge and Unmasking are printed, might wanna print a counter
  • Metro Underground: A great staple Master card, not yet reprinted. Might find a slot in a few decks
  • Pulled Fangs: HttB has a strong Samedi :samedi: rush possibility, but miss that card a lot
  • Depravity: Might benefit a few stars like Saulot, the Capuchin, etc.
  • Flurry of Action: Great with Fanchon
  • Fiendish Tongue: Would be a great option for Tzimisce
  • The Admonitions, Powerbase: Barranquilla, Black Forest Base: all great Sabbat cards missing from the precons
  • Gran Madre di Dio: Hard to find, good counter, handy in big cap decks
  • Rigor Mortis: Might want to wait for DTC but misses for Samedi combat decks

Finally, to make this as complete (and useful) as possible, here is the list of the top 50 not reprinted cards, based on the TWDA decks (decks from 2008 up only cause, you know, before that we didn't have all the cards yet :whistle:).
  • Archon Investigation (played in 435 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • My Enemy's Enemy (played in 419 decks, typically 1-3 copies)
  • The Parthenon (played in 381 decks, typically 1-4 copies)
  • Aranthebes, The Immortal (played in 340 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Golconda: Inner Peace (played in 266 decks, typically 1-3 copies)
  • Ossian (played in 213 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Canine Horde (played in 205 decks, typically 1-3 copies)
  • Abbot (played in 180 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • Sense the Savage Way (played in 179 decks, typically 2-6 copies)
  • Redirection (played in 177 decks, typically 1-4 copies)
  • Bum's Rush (played in 153 decks, typically 1-7 copies)
  • Into Thin Air (played in 143 decks, typically 1-5 copies)
  • Vagabond Mystic (played in 140 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • FBI Special Affairs Division (played in 140 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Far Mastery (played in 139 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • Concealed Weapon (played in 139 decks, typically 3-8 copies)
  • Metro Underground (played in 134 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Fortschritt Library (played in 130 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Effective Management (played in 126 decks, typically 1-5 copies)
  • Narrow Minds (played in 125 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • The Erciyes Fragments (played in 122 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Awe (played in 115 decks, typically 1-4 copies)
  • The Uncoiling (played in 106 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Anarch Revolt (played in 105 decks, typically 2-8 copies)
  • Disarm (played in 104 decks, typically 2-4 copies)
  • Graverobbing (played in 104 decks, typically 1-4 copies)
  • Skin of Steel (played in 100 decks, typically 1-5 copies)
  • Tasha Morgan (played in 100 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Neighbor John (played in 99 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • Nana Buruku (played in 95 decks, typically 2-4 copies)
  • The Kiss of Ra (played in 93 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • Rötschreck (played in 93 decks, typically 1-4 copies)
  • Jephta Hester (played in 90 decks, typically 1 copy)
  • Stick (played in 88 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • Disputed Territory (played in 88 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
  • Obfuscate (played in 86 decks, typically 1-5 copies)
  • Leather Jacket (played in 85 decks, typically 1-3 copies)
  • Sideslip (played in 84 decks, typically 2-5 copies)
  • Anson (played in 82 decks, typically 2-5 copies)
  • Terror Frenzy (played in 81 decks, typically 1-4 copies)
  • Charisma (played in 81 decks, typically 1-2 copies)
Last edit: 26 Mar 2022 10:29 by lip. Reason: Updated to New Blood
The following user(s) said Thank You: Charles_Bronson, self biased, inm8

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27 Dec 2021 23:17 - 27 Dec 2021 23:18 #104297 by Lech
I don't think anything other than 5th and new anarchs starters count for new format.

Archon, Psyche!, Thrown sewer lid, aids from bats, wmrh are all solid choices.

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Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
Last edit: 27 Dec 2021 23:18 by Lech.

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29 Dec 2021 01:58 #104304 by FineLerv
Hopefully they still intend to release deck expanders of some sort for all the pre-cons. I'm not too sure what kind of product it would be but it would be a great way to increase the card pool, and keep happy both beginners and veterans looking for more official 5E cards.

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29 Dec 2021 10:54 #104306 by Lönkka
The suggestion I made as a player but mainly as a retailer was to have an expansion box for the 5th Edition core game. One that would allow you to modify and build a different version of each of the decks.

Many a retailer tends to dislike a game that has a gazillion different expansions especially if they are small like precons. Having one larger size expansion clearly intended for the core game would sell the expansion for this crowd's shelves.

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29 Dec 2021 18:50 #104313 by thelonius reloaded
I am a true fan of BCP's work, they are doing great but... I don't think that reprinting old vampires could really push the game forward. Reprinting old library, yes, especially staple ones.

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30 Dec 2021 10:16 - 30 Dec 2021 10:19 #104316 by lip
In my opinion it's mainly a question of accessibility. We are getting a steady flow of new players, and we want them to be able to play the game without hitting a "price wall" to get good decks.

You might not be following the price trends on E-bay but, for example, Narrow Minds, Ossian and Aranthebes are nowhere to be found anymore and got over $20. The Parthenon and Nana Buruku are in the $15 range and rising. My Enemy's Enemy is nowadays worth $10 in any edition.

Printing the most sought-after cards first is important if we don't want the new players to feel like "okay, accessible game to play with your friends, but top level is very expensive". Today My Enemy's Enemy is twice the price of Ashur Tablet: I think it is a strong signal that, yeah, we are getting quite a few new players, but also that we need to curate to them properly. Any card that is "top level" and broadly played (and sought-after) should be reprinted fast or we will lose a lot of momentum.
Last edit: 30 Dec 2021 10:19 by lip.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Charles_Bronson, Lech

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