New set in 2012

Well looking the word up in Oxford dictionary

noun (plural proxies)
1 [mass noun] the authority to represent someone else, especially in voting:
Britons overseas may register to vote by proxy
[

• count noun] a person authorized to act on behalf of another.
• [count noun] a document authorizing a person to vote on another’s behalf.

From this I would say that a Proxy in a TCG could be a document authorized to act on behalf of another document.

This would mean that there would need to be another document(card) to act on the behalf of. With this new set there isent such a card, it dosent exsist. Therefor the printed card produced wouldent be a proxy, it would be the actual card, just represented in another form that most other cards would.

I don't see why "proxies" were involved in this discussion.
The only allowed cards are the genuine WotC/WW/CCP cards, and printed versions of the VEKN cards. There's no need to discuss what a "proxy" is.

Tournament wrote:

All cards in a player's deck must be genuine Vampire: The Eternal Struggle or Jyhad cards or official V:EKN issued cards from the only authoritative source www.vekn.net.

Pascal wrote:

I don't see why "proxies" were involved in this discussion.
The only allowed cards are the genuine WotC/WW/CCP cards, and printed versions of the VEKN cards. There's no need to discuss what a "proxy" is.

Tournament wrote:

All cards in a player's deck must be genuine Vampire: The Eternal Struggle or Jyhad cards or official V:EKN issued cards from the only authoritative source www.vekn.net.

Since when have "need" driven the discussions here ;o)

Oh, well, sure.
"Proxy" isn't a word used in the rules, so you can argue on it being a copy of a physically existing card, an existing card itself (as the material representation of cardtext), a printed version of an immaterial card, or even the picture of a grandma riding a horse to the top of the Eiffel tower. As long as the object is in one of the allowed categories, it is legal for tournament play. Otherwise, it isn't.

Amenophobis wrote:

Dorrinal wrote:

Let's say you wanted to proxy a card like Villein. You just print out the card text, and slide it in sleeves in front of some random cards. Do you need to own a copy of Villein for each proxy? Of course not. You could proxy an entire deck this way without owning any of the actual cards. The cards in your deck, with the printouts, represent the idea of Villein -- not physical copies of Villein, because you don't need to own physical copies to make proxies.

Now this hypothetical PDF set is released by VEKN and you want to put one of the new cards in your deck. You print out the card text, slide it in the sleeves in front of some random cards, and add them to your deck. These cards represent the idea of the new card, just like the cards in the Villein example.

Summary:

• A proxy is a card that represents another card.
• One does not need to own any copies of a card to create a proxy for it, therefore
• A proxy is a card that represents the idea of a card, not a physical card, therefore
• It doesn't matter if there are no physical copies of a card.

That is wrong. A proxy, in (trading) card games, is a representaion of a physical, existing card.

Jesper wrote:

This would mean that there would need to be another document(card) to act on the behalf of. With this new set there isent such a card, it dosent exsist. Therefor the printed card produced wouldent be a proxy, it would be the actual card, just represented in another form that most other cards would.

My example directly contradicts your assertion that there must be a physical card. That was the whole purpose of my post. Both these responses are the equivalent of shouting "NUH UH!" at my argument.

Pascal: thanks for the reality check, but at this point we have devolved into arguing semantics.

Pascal wrote:

I don't see why "proxies" were involved in this discussion.

Which was my point when I posted my message #19810 on the previous page.
Using the word proxy in conjunction with the upcoming PDF cards leads into confusion and mixups. And as we just witnessed, sematics