Outside the Hourglass and Vampiric Disease

Thanx James.

I agree. Ooth rulings are confusing, and i am also in the camp "change it to environmental"

Pendargon wrote:

Thanx James.

I agree. Ooth rulings are confusing, and i am also in the camp "change it to environmental"

I can see the value there from a rules simplicity point of view - the rulings are pretty crazy - but I think the theming there is spot-on. It's a unique capability for a unique discipline, and being able to deal damage outside of the normal sequence of combat is very appropriate for a power that involves taking action outside of the normal flow of time. Making it environmental messes with a lot of the uniqueness of it.

So why does Disarm work with Outside The Hourglass (especially when combined with Domain of Evernight at basic Temporis, so that combat ends before range is determined), and Vampiric Disease does not?

Does it come down to the fact that Vampiric Disease already has rulings that push it one way, and Disarm does not? Or is there a more subtle difference between them that I'm not grasping? (Or am I confusing the Disarm combo, which needs close, with Decapitate, which does not?)

Disarm (basic potence level) : Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Put this card on the opposing vampire and send that vampire into torpor. The vampire with this card has -1 strength. He or she may burn this card by burning 3 blood. A vampire can have only one Disarm.

Vampiric Disease : Master.
Put a disease counter on any vampire. Each time a vampire with a disease counter is in combat at close range with another vampire, the second vampire gets a counter as well. An afflicted vampire cannot gain blood by hunting. When an afflicted vampire untaps, he or she burns a blood or, if unable, burns the disease counter. A vampire can have only one disease counter.

Outside the Hourglass, superior Temporis level : Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at superior each round.

Domain of Evernight, basic Temporis level : If this action is blocked, all damage done to vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated.

prunesquallor wrote:

So why does Disarm work with Outside The Hourglass (especially when combined with Domain of Evernight at basic Temporis, so that combat ends before range is determined), and Vampiric Disease does not? Or, the combo of Outside the Hourglass, Domain of Evernight, and Decapitate (superior)?

Explicit rulings, apparently to preserve designer intent.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

(Personally, from an 'ick' perspective, I'd rather the Outside the Hourglass interaction with range wasn't necessary (such as by errata-ing it by fiat to be environmental damage, a la Weather Control), or that all the dependent cards - like Disarm - that interact with it were only playable after range has been determined. But that's not where we are.)

Latest wording on Disarm:

Disarm wrote:

[pot] Only usable at close range at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Put this card on the opposing vampire and send that vampire into torpor. The vampire with this card has -1 strength. He or she may burn this card by burning 3 blood. A vampire can have only one Disarm.

Pulled Fangs has seen a similar update.

Ah, I forgot about the changes in:

www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/30276-extrala-is-wrong-did-you-know-that--part-91?limit=10&start=30#30748

Or, more specifically, I remembered Pascal was contemplating it (a page or two back in the thread), but didn't remember the change being confirmed.

Specifically: "I'll change Disarm and Pulled Fangs to get this clear. They'll only be usable at close range."