file Catatonic Fear question

05 May 2014 06:44 #61845 by jamesatzephyr

Envirnmental isnt a keyword in rules (should be, but before james hits me with a digital brick to the head, thats another conversation and i dont care that much) but is a term used for crows, blood of acid, and weather control style timings(b4 range, during strike res, after strike res, specifically) so timing is kinda still in combat (red card window) at that point, not after or before like burn a blood to block effects or cf stuff, so skin of night et al are playable in combat. Envirnmental is in combat though.


Incorrect.

Environmental is solely to do with the source of the damage. If the damage is not dealt by a minion, it's environmental. The timing is not relevant.

Mercy for Seth's damage during the untap phase is outside combat. It is not damage from a minion, however, thus environmental..

Burning a Path (e.g. Path of Evil Revelations) deals damage to the relevant minion outside combat. Similarly, not from a minion.

The damage taken by a minion from the in-play effect of superior Putrefaction can happen in or out of combat, but is not dealt by a minion.

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05 May 2014 11:05 - 05 May 2014 11:05 #61854 by CalibanX
So what would happen if 2 vamps with 1 blood each get into combat? One vamp plays Catatonic Fear, the other plays Form of Mist. What happens?
Last edit: 05 May 2014 11:05 by CalibanX.

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05 May 2014 11:13 #61855 by ReverendRevolver

So what would happen if 2 vamps with 1 blood each get into combat? One vamp plays Catatonic Fear, the other plays Form of Mist. What happens?


Assuming the blocker plays cf, the acting minion form of mist, you know....

Combat ends.
Cf damage is going to happen, so the action minion would be smart not to burn the blood to continue the action. Smarter still wouldve been dodge with pro fom, but i assume PRO fom is announced before cf.

Acting minion has the option to enter torpor if he choses, though.

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05 May 2014 11:55 #61859 by CalibanX
I accept the answers I've been give here. Dodges avoid damage from Catatonic Fear. That's all I need to know when playing the card. I appreciate everyone that took the time to try to explain to me why this is.

But I'm still struggling conceptually, how a combat card can affect a damage dealing affect that occurs outside of combat. I don't understand why, if a Dodge can be played during combat to avoid taking damage outside of combat, why can't fortitude cards prevent it? The answer I'm told is because you can't play combat cards outside of combat yet this is precisely what the Dodge is doing: Avoiding damage inflicted outside of combat.

The Catatonic Damage that occurs after combat is dependent upon the success of the combat ends when played during the Choose Strike phase of combat. Dodges don't counter Combat Ends. The Combat ends is still successful. So, the additional affect can then occur, which, in this case, is inflicting one damage after combat ends. This damage dealing affect (like other secondary affects that can come with combat ends) is NOT a combat affect. It doesn't exist during combat, it only exists as an effect after combat (like Majesty's untapping effect).

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05 May 2014 12:00 - 05 May 2014 12:03 #61860 by ReverendRevolver
Look at it as a problem of no fortitude ever being worded "prevent x damage later this turn" its later in the round or the combat. Cf is a strike, as is dodge. They both have effects, ones is specifically to negate the others effects on the minion dodging.

Its wierd, but alot of vtes is.

James, is horseshoes envirnmental, or direct, simce its non striking but says "inflict"?

Petra horseshoes do agg? Thinking no, but you get the idea.but per text, id say yes.
Last edit: 05 May 2014 12:03 by ReverendRevolver.

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05 May 2014 13:56 - 05 May 2014 13:57 #61867 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Catatonic Fear question

I accept the answers I've been give here. Dodges avoid damage from Catatonic Fear. That's all I need to know when playing the card. I appreciate everyone that took the time to try to explain to me why this is.

But I'm still struggling conceptually, how a combat card can affect a damage dealing affect that occurs outside of combat. I don't understand why, if a Dodge can be played during combat to avoid taking damage outside of combat, why can't fortitude cards prevent it? The answer I'm told is because you can't play combat cards outside of combat yet this is precisely what the Dodge is doing: Avoiding damage inflicted outside of combat.

The key is the moment you play the card. You can play Strike: dodge during combat, and it will protect you from the effects from the strike, whether they happen right away, or later (eg. after combat, or even three turns later, hypothetically).
It's the same with Target Vitals + Catatonic Fear: TV modifies the damage from CF, even if it's dealt way later (after combat). But you were able to play TV during combat, so it's fine.

Now, you can't prevent damage before it's inflicted. Since the damage is dealt after combat, you would have to prevent it at that moment. Unfortunately, you can't play combat cards at that time, so you're screwed.

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Last edit: 05 May 2014 13:57 by Ankha.

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