Catatonic Fear question

The "Strike: Dodge vs Strike: Combat Ends" situation can potentially be cleared with further examples.

For all of the cards below, a Strike: Dodge will not stop the combat from ending. However, it will stop the texts that follow. "Strike: Combat ends and XYZ" becomes effectively "Strike: Combat ends and XYZ"

Unholy Penance
Type: Combat
Requires: Presence
Cost: 1 blood

 Strike: combat ends.

 As above, and put this card on the opposing minion (ranged). The striking vampire gets +1 bleed against this minion's controller. This minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth action. A minion can have only one Unholy Penance.

If you strike dodge, this strike at

 becomes "Strike: Combat Ends." The rest of the text is rendered useless (mostly because most of it requires the card to be in play, which it won't be from the S:D.


Loving Agony

Type: Combat

Requires: Valeren/Animalism

Cost: 1 blood

Only usable at close range.

[ani] Strike: hand strike at +1 damage.

[val] Strike: combat ends and the opposing minion takes 1 damage.

[VAL] As [val] above, and this vampire may burn 1 blood to untap before combat ends.

At [val] this becomes Strike: Combat ends if a S:D is played.  At [VAL] it is the same as [val] but the minion playing the strike can untap, if the non-Valeren minion uses a S:D.


Morphean Blow

Type: Combat

Requires: Valeren/Celerity

Cost: 1 blood

Only usable at close range.

[cel] Strike: combat ends.

[val] Strike: combat ends and put this card on the opposing minion. This minion cannot take actions or block. Burn this card at the end of the turn.

[VAL] As [val] above, and if this vampire was blocked while performing an action other than bleeding, the action continues as if unblocked.

At [val] This becomes "Strike: Combat Ends" and at [VAL] it becomes "Strike: Combat Ends, and if this vampire was blocked while performing an action other than bleeding, the action continues as if unblocked."

Oubliette

Type: Combat

Requires: Obtenebration

Cost: 1 blood

[obt] Strike: combat ends.

[OBT] As above, and the opposing minion burns 1 blood or life after combat (even at long range).

At [OBT] this card becomes "Strike: Combat Ends" if the opposing minion plays a S:D.

Dodge doesnt protect retainers, according to the dodge part of the rules. Can someone explain WHY?

I mean, we have our retainers only harmable with agg, and theres the fact that any run of the mill ranged strike can be pointed at a retainer (why the hell dont we shoot retainers? I normally care more about torping the vamp, but if the vamp is at 3 blood, and has a bleed retainer or crows, its practical to use blur and off the retainer and taste, sinceif you taste its the same gain, less the one from blur youd not spend if you used pursuit, but you get the idea). Also, targrt retainer exists for close range, but its the second worst aim card there is (vitals, head, hand, retainer, leg, in descending order of good). But, why is it that "a minions actions to avoid a strike" can be extended to protext belongings (when it could just say equipment since it then says retainers arent covered, like a bad insurance policys fine print) so, Eugene TOTALLY has time to protect both his helicopter & his gran madre de dios & his catacombs & his chainsaw & his collection of shotguns and assualt rifles (and if they ever get printed his leather suitcase, his bowling ball, and his lucky lucky autographed glow in the dark snorkel) buthe doesnt have the timd to push his resplendit protector out ot the way of gunfire?

Just feels impracical from a fluff standpoint and less than fair from balamce mechanics standpoint. I also hate how first strike matters so little, but this is a beef that never made sense.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Dodge doesnt protect retainers, according to the dodge part of the rules. Can someone explain WHY?

You point your gun at me. You fire. I step to the left. The bullet misses me.

You point your gun at that dude over there. You fire. I step to the left. That doesn't affect anything, since the bullet wasn't going at me in the first place.

You Strike: Destroy Weapon at my gun. I step to the left. Because I am holding my gun, it moves with me. Therefore, your punch misses my gun because my gun and I are not stood in the way of your fist.

But ot says the actions taken to avoid the strike. Its not just stepping to the left, but ducking and moving, apparently helicopters, buildings, and basements out of harms way. I get loquipments arent euipments in play, but they are still a possesion. Just feels weird..

ReverendRevolver wrote:

But ot says the actions taken to avoid the strike. Its not just stepping to the left, but ducking and moving, apparently helicopters, buildings, and basements out of harms way. I get loquipments arent euipments in play, but they are still a possesion. Just feels weird..

Helicopters, learjets and loquipment were added to the game long after the rules were formulated. Of the 25 pieces of equipment in the Jyhad set, almost all of them are things you could easily be wearing or carrying, such as Flak Jackets, Stakes and Grenades. In 1994, a laptop computer would probably have been quite a bit more unwieldy than the svelte items you see today, but could have been in a backpack or something, and hence available for a Canine Horde to chomp on. The two least 'carried on your person' items are the two bikes, but that's not that weird, really. Possibly the RPG Launcher, which is obviously portable but a bit... unwieldy.

Thanks Juggernaut for providing those combat ends scenarios and how they resolve. That was very helpful. My problem with the rules and CF text is semantic. I'm not arguing btw, I'm just expressing where my confusion was coming from:

I wasn't aware that the components of the various combat ends cards could be broken up into separate parts by the introduction of a Dodge. Nor is it intuitive that a dodge played during combat should extend to affects occurring outside of combat. When the rules state that "combat ends is not affected by a dodge" I simply assumed that that wording was absolute; and pertained to the secondary affects of combat ends cards too(inflict 1 damage after combat, untap, continue action, etc). I'm told it does not and I'm fine with that.