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06 Feb 2019 19:40 - 06 Feb 2019 19:42 #93307 by 2wayspeaker
Replied by 2wayspeaker on topic Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback
No, you can lock locked vampired for cost.

Everycard that doesnt include "an unlocked vampire" means you can lock a locked or unlocked vampire.
Last edit: 06 Feb 2019 19:42 by 2wayspeaker.

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06 Feb 2019 21:03 #93310 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback
Wrong.

for example :

Hide the Heart
[Reaction] Reaction

[Valeren] Valeren
[Auspex] Auspex

[aus] Reduce a bleed against you by 1.
[val] The action ends (unsuccessfully). The acting minion may burn 1 blood to cancel this card as it is played. Only one Hide the Heart may be played at [val] each action.
[VAL] Reduce a bleed against you by 2, or tap to reduce a bleed against any Methuselah by 2.

In order to use the :VAL: effect to reduce a bleed against any methusalah by 2, you have to be untapped

(At least, it has been explained to me that way)

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06 Feb 2019 21:39 - 06 Feb 2019 21:41 #93313 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback
Well that is more of a templating issue. The costs and effects of cards is anything but intuitive. As it stands every card has it's own ruling practically.
Last edit: 06 Feb 2019 21:41 by Mewcat.

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06 Feb 2019 21:57 #93315 by 2wayspeaker
Replied by 2wayspeaker on topic Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback
[ ! cards snipped ! ]
Hide the Heart
[Reaction] Reaction

[VAL] Reduce a bleed against you by 2, or tap to reduce a bleed against any Methuselah by 2.

Does not specify the minion needs to be unlocked. You are perfectly allowed to be locked, play OTQV and that card at superior.
Mind Numb
[Action] Action

[1 Blood]	
[pre] (D) Put this card on any untapped vampire. Tap that vampire; he or she does not untap as normal during his or her controller's untap phase.
Art's Traumatic Essence
[Action] Action
[Melpominee] Melpominee
[Auspex] Auspex
+1 stealth action.
[aus] (D) Tap any untapped minion.
[mel] (D) Tap any untapped minion, and that minion burns 1 blood or life.
[MEL] (D) Put this card on any ready untapped minion and tap that minion.
Principia Discordia
[Action] Action
[qui] (D) Burn 1 blood on an untapped vampire and tap that vampire.
[ser] (D) Steal 1 blood from a ready tapped vampire.

Cards above care about the position of the target.
Any card that does not specify the position the target needs to be in, doesn't care.
You can lock already locked vampires and unlock already unlocked vampires.

I feel your point, I had a 3 page discussion on this forum about it with mods of the rules sub. Can't find anything before february 2018 though....

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07 Feb 2019 00:20 - 07 Feb 2019 00:23 #93317 by narpassword
Replied by narpassword on topic Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback

[ ! cards snipped ! ]
Hide the Heart
[Reaction] Reaction

[VAL] Reduce a bleed against you by 2, or [b]tap to reduce[/b] a bleed against any Methuselah by 2.

Does not specify the minion needs to be unlocked. You are perfectly allowed to be locked, play OTQV and that card at superior.


I'm pretty pretty pretty sure there's a ruling around those bold word of 'lock _to_ <do something>'

just gotta find it

edit: www.vekn.net/rulebook
11 - SPECIAL TERMS
Wording Template:
“Lock X to do Y”: Some cards use this wording, for instance: superior Bauble, Isanwayen. Such effects can’t be used by locked minions, even by those under a wake effect. These effects require an unlocked minion to be used. Conversely, “Lock X. Do Y” effects (for instance: Redirection) are usable by locked minions under a wake effect.
Last edit: 07 Feb 2019 00:23 by narpassword.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Yomyael

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07 Feb 2019 04:42 #93319 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback
Good list; good feedback.

In the same vein: You are allowed to attempt completely useless actions (bleed 0, action fizzle bcs can't pay cost, etc...) and waste modifiers attempting them. Not specified.

You cannot attempt an action for which you do not meet the requirements. Cost is a requirement. Other effects could allow such an action to begin, Ravnos Carnival or Hackerspace as long as there are enough counters between the minion and the cost-paying card, but as a general rule if you can't pay for it, you can't start it.
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