file Black Chantry Rulebook Feedback

11 Feb 2019 05:11 #93404 by kschaefer
We could use some more parity between 6.1.1 Bleed and 6.1.2 Hunt.

By default, all minions have a bleed amount of one (most allies have card text that overrides the default).

If the action is successful, move a blood counter to the acting vampire from the blood bank.


The first section doesn't really explain +Bleed and the second section doesn't use language that makes +Hunt workable. There should at least be parallels between these two.

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11 Feb 2019 06:08 - 11 Feb 2019 06:14 #93405 by Boris The Blade
Section 6.1.6:

A minion cannot perform an action with the same action card more than once each turn, even if he unlocks. A minion cannot perform each action via the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more than once each turn, even if he unlocks.

This needs to be reworded. "The same card" is used twice with two different meanings. Proposal:
"A minion can only play one copy of a given action card in the same turn.
A minion can take an action granted by a card in play once per turn per copy in play."

In general, the NRA rules should get their own section rather than being sprinkled in individual action descriptions. Players don't need the NRA rule to learn how a bleed works. They need it to learn how Freak Drive works, and at that time they need all the possibilities in front of them at once.

"6.1.8 Multiple actions in one turn
If an effect unlocks a minion during its minion phase, then he can choose to take another action. However the following restrictions apply:
-A minion can only attempt one bleed action per turn.
-A minion can only attempt one political action per turn.
-A minion can only play one copy of an action card per turn.
-A minion can only attempt an action granted by a card in play once per turn per copy in play."

Use "attempt" instead of "perform" in NRA rules to make it explicit that the NRA triggers even if the action is blocked.
Last edit: 11 Feb 2019 06:14 by Boris The Blade.

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11 Feb 2019 09:58 #93406 by Ankha

"6.1.8 Multiple actions in one turn
If an effect unlocks a minion during its minion phase, then he can choose to take another action. However the following restrictions apply:
-A minion can only attempt one bleed action per turn.
-A minion can only attempt one political action per turn.
-A minion can only play one copy of an action card per turn.
-A minion can only attempt an action granted by a card in play once per turn per copy in play."

Use "attempt" instead of "perform" in NRA rules to make it explicit that the NRA triggers even if the action is blocked.


This would be a breaking change, as vampires can attempt more than once a bleed for instance, if the first one never reached resolution (eg., Direct on the bleed action card, or Tangle Atropo's Hand).

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11 Feb 2019 10:33 #93407 by Kraus
I cannot see why Tangle for one could not be rewritten for clarity, and cancelling action cards as they are played already has a spot on the rule book that could be amended.

Some text changes here or there not to brake the rules just to have much clearer info on repeated actions clause seems like a small price to pay.

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11 Feb 2019 13:19 #93410 by Ankha

I cannot see why Tangle for one could not be rewritten for clarity, and cancelling action cards as they are played already has a spot on the rule book that could be amended.

Some text changes here or there not to brake the rules just to have much clearer info on repeated actions clause seems like a small price to pay.

If you know the difference between "perform" and "attempt", then both are equally clear.

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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11 Feb 2019 13:29 #93411 by LivesByProxy

I am no english native speaker so maybe I don't understand some subtlety but it seems pretty forward to me..


So, for you, the rulebook explains this clearly enough that you would not make a mistake?

For me it does.

Locking TO do something and locking as a separate effect is clear.


The reason for this confusion is due to poor or nonexistent card templating. The rules can't really clear this up because the cards don't make any meaningful distinction between costs and effects.


Perhaps a format similar to what Magic (and the LCGs use) would be helpful here. That format is [cost] colon [effect]. So for example:

"Lock a minion you control: Your prey burns 1 pool." versus "Burn 1 pool: Lock a minion."

Everything before the colon (":") is the cost that is paid, or required. Everything afterwards is part of the effect.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
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