Mata Hari and Hakim's Law: Leadership

DJHedgehog wrote:

"You may play master cards ignoring clan/sect requirements, following legal targeting restrictions. Mata Hari may play cards ignoring clan/sect requirements and meet the requirements of cards she plays until the end of the action."

That may need some work, but I think you'd be hard pressed to not understand how the card works.

Is it lengthy? Sure. Cards should not have been created with short and unclear wording for the sake of length.

Well, I have to disagree with you.

I personally prefer what you call "short unclear wording" even if we need a more clear and precise ruling to clear the "uncleariness".

Your proposal is very lengthy, not at all clear (what does it means that she can "meet the requirements of cards she plays until the end of the action" ?) and wrong because you can for example play an aching beauty on Mata Hari even if you have to place it on a Toreador.

Timo wrote:

Well, I have to disagree with you.

I personally prefer what you call "short unclear wording" even if we need a more clear and precise ruling to clear the "uncleariness".

Your proposal is very lengthy, not at all clear (what does it means that she can "meet the requirements of cards she plays until the end of the action" ?) and wrong because you can for example play an aching beauty on Mata Hari even if you have to place it on a Toreador.

Has anyone here heard of "constructive criticism"? It's where you provide helpful feedback to make something better.

You're saying you'd rather have to search ruling websites or require a 20+ page pamphlet to play the game rather than just print on the cards what they do?

Meet the requirements of cards she plays until the end of the action may not be the best way to say it. This is where your constructive criticism would help provide clarity instead of coming here for a "gotcha" moment. Thanks for coming to shit on me and provide nothing else.

Also holy shit you can play aching beauty on Mata Hari? That doesn't make any sense at all.
"Put this card on any toreador." When during your master phase does mata hari become a toreador?

Sorry if you thought I was shitting on you. It was not at all the purpose of my comment.

As for the feedback itself, what I was trying to say is that I don't think you can explain without any doubt what Mata Hari does. So my opinion (and I am only expressing an opinion) is that it is better to have a short card text which explains what Mata Hari does without going in detail about every possibilities than having to explain it in a 5 lines card text which could potentially be better but would not possibly cover every situation clearly and would still need some ruling.

As for finding a better way to say it, I find the current cardtext clear enough but was (not so) kindly reminded (by you) that as a non native english speaker I could not possibly understand all the nuances of this language so I don't see the point of trying to find a better way to phrase it.

And yes, you can play aching beauty on Mata Hari. The logic is that it is played "as if" Mata Hari was a Toreador so logically (at least, I find it logical) it can be placed on her. But do not forget that once it is placed on her, aching beauty see Mata Hari as a Ravnos and will have no effect what so ever.

@timo

I'm not sure what the difficulty is.

xXxX is considered yyy as you play master cards.
XXxX may play and resolve cards as yyyyy.

Timo wrote:

And yes, you can play aching beauty on Mata Hari. The logic is that it is played "as if" Mata Hari was a Toreador so logically (at least, I find it logical) it can be placed on her. But do not forget that once it is placed on her, aching beauty see Mata Hari as a Ravnos and will have no effect what so ever.

I find this effect counter intuitive but even worse, sloppy design. Tying the effect of this card to the random words on other cards is ineligent at best.

Side note. I hate 'sees as' to explain cards. Cards don't see anything.

DJHedgehog wrote:

"You may play master cards ignoring clan/sect requirements, following legal targeting restrictions. Mata Hari may play cards ignoring clan/sect requirements and meet the requirements of cards she plays until the end of the action."

As Timo pointed out, this wording would actually change how Mata Hari works, and this was not the intention, right? I find the "as if" wording quite acceptable, but if one wanted to put this differently, it would need to say something like

"You may play master cards ignoring clan/sect requirements. You may target Mata Hari with master cards that may only target a member of a specific clan or sect even if Mata Hari is not of that clan or sect."

As for the unintuitiveness or senselessness of playing clan requiring master cards on Mata Hari, in my opinion this fits the theme and feel of the vampire very well. What I find annoying is the fact that those cards don't necessarily work after being placed on her.

*Original post was edited into something more on topic.*