Expansion Update

Lönkka wrote:

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Again, who does it harm to make proxies?

Been through this previously, but the biggest thing most certainly is the marketability of the game for the next publisher.

"Please pick up the game. Don't mind the fact that no player actually needs to buy any of your new products, or reprints, since you can proxy all you like in VTES nowadays. lol"


You wanna proxy cards in friendly games? -go ahead and have a blast!
You wanna do the same in official tournaments? -error 404

But it also a very simple matter to say "Dear Playerbase of the VEKN, your game is now being officially produced by people seeking to make money from it. Consequently, using your own printed proxy cards is now illegal in tournament play."

I'm sure most of us realise that DIY Cards would always be about making the game accessible in the Torpor Period.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Lönkka wrote:

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Again, who does it harm to make proxies?

Been through this previously, but the biggest thing most certainly is the marketability of the game for the next publisher.

"Please pick up the game. Don't mind the fact that no player actually needs to buy any of your new products, or reprints, since you can proxy all you like in VTES nowadays. lol"


You wanna proxy cards in friendly games? -go ahead and have a blast!
You wanna do the same in official tournaments? -error 404

But it also a very simple matter to say "Dear Playerbase of the VEKN, your game is now being officially produced by people seeking to make money from it. Consequently, using your own printed proxy cards is now illegal in tournament play."

I'm sure most of us realise that DIY Cards would always be about making the game accessible in the Torpor Period.

Exactly. With the stroke of a pen proxies can be made legal. Similarly, they can be made illegal when/if some chooses to pick up the game and print it for money. I don't see how having proxies in between publishers devalues the game or the intellectual property, however you look at it.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Exactly. With the stroke of a pen proxies can be made legal. Similarly, they can be made illegal when/if some chooses to pick up the game and print it for money. I don't see how having proxies in between publishers devalues the game or the intellectual property, however you look at it.

Agreed 100%.

Disclaimer: I am totally against allowing for Proxies of cards that are still available in boosters.
There is one thing people didn't mention: that would make our Tournament Prizes completely worthless, therefore Tournaments less interesting.
We don't want that.

A question to all of you that claim that legalizing proxies (just during the time we don't have a publisher) would make it less likely to get a new publisher:

Shouldn't the number of active players be the most important factor to "sell" the game to a publisher?
If you think yes, why shouldn't we pass legislation that would include more players in our ranks?

Izaak wrote:

In exchange for alienating those players, you get a few players that couldn't be bothered to buy cards when they were available that for some reason think they can win tournaments when they can proxy 15 Villeins and 5 Enkil Cogs.

yeah, you'd think those people who weren't playing VTES a few years ago would simply look into the future and buy their hobby cards in advance. how selfish of them.

The argument here is not "it's better for the game to allow proxies", because frankly, it's not. I would be detrimental even. The argument appear to be "waah waah cry cry I don't have the cards I want and I don't want to spend money to get them".

you have discovered the hidden conspiracy. everyone in this thread has been lying about their true motives, and secretly think exactly as you have said.

Izaak wrote:

The argument here is not "it's better for the game to allow proxies", because frankly, it's not. I would be detrimental even. The argument appear to be "waah waah cry cry I don't have the cards I want and I don't want to spend money to get them".

I don't need any more VtES cards at the moment.
I doubt I'll need any more in the future.
Unless something happens to my collection, that is.

My issues have always been with players that came into the game after we ran out of KoT, per example. Some of us care more about that than how much our own cards are worth.
So, to try to be as eloquent as you, "waah waah cry cry I don't have the number of players in VtES that satisfies me as an Organizer."