Let's Talk Rapid Thought!

How about limiting pool gain to untap phase and influence phase? With an exception of regarding ousting of course.

I'm aware, that Enchant Kindred, PB: Montreal, PB: Chicago and alike cards would be usable then. If you don't like Enchant Kidred bloat, you can limit pool gain to untap phase (and oust).

Master cards and action cards that have direct pool gain could have both burn option AND option to be played. You can for example play Villein, but only result is that you lose 2 blood from a vampire but gain none. Or, you could play Art Scam, but result is to gain nothing.

I like the idea of making some sort of rule around pool gain, rather than banning cards outright.

What about the following rule: "Players cannot gain pool unless they control the Edge."

That way, you could still play with say, Minion Tap, but it'd be utterly useless unless you started your turn with the Edge. This would minimize pool gain, but not eliminate it entirely (IMO it should be part of the game in some form, in order to make large-cap vampires more viable)

Another interesting thing about this, is that if your prey is ousted while you don't control the Edge, say by a KRC or something instead of bleeding, you don't gain the 6 pool for it, just the victory point. Just a thought...I would think this restriction alone would speed up games significantly on its own, without the need for any additional bannings (and I don't see why Una is banned, either)

Robba wrote:

All of the items listed are pool gain. However, I will admit I forgot the Edge. I believe the Edge (no matter how it is attained, since one generally must have it during your Untap phase to benefit) and the Oust should be the only sources of pool gain. Even Vampire text such as Rabbat or Hartmut Stover should be disallowed.

Well, that is exactly what the rule I suggested does.

"Any time you would add counters to your pool, unless it comes from the Edge or ousting your prey, move those counters to the blood bank instead."

You can't gain pool. Unless you keep the edge or oust someone. You can still add counters to uncontrolled dudes with Govern and Montreal and whatever, but if you take blood with a Villein or gain pool with a Con Boon, all that blood just goes away instead. Clean, simple, unambiguous. Doesn't require banning anything, and while it effectively bans a lot of cards by making them completely useless (Con Boon, Villein, whatever), you can still have them in a deck if you want to do something tricky (use Villein to empty a vampire for some sort of turbo trick) or mundane (include Blood Dolls just to push blood on your guys), you still can.

Ankha wrote:

Pool gained* is put aside instead and can be used to pay card pool costs and pool lost/paid during the non-minion phases (such as infernal penalties, Anarch Revolt, Eye of Hazimel, Dragonbound...).
* except for ousting a prey or the edge

I think this, and other suggestions for limiting pool gain other than simply making all pool gain just not happen (other than the Edge and ousting your prey) are extra, unnecessary complication for limited gain. If the format simply disallows pool gain all together, decks that are built for the environment will be built to work without pool gain. And in the end, everything will work out fine.

I don't think adding sort of bending over backwards hoop jumping to allow limited pool gain is a good direction to go in. Removing all direct pool gain other than the Edge and ousting your prey is simple, clean, not confusing, and while it certainly limits what decks will be viable in the format, the format already limits what decks will be viable in the format.

Might need to also adjust for these....or not, if you like tac nukes.

Ancient Influence
Political Action

Successful referendum means each Methuselah may choose a ready vampire he or she controls. Each Methuselah gains an amount of pool from the blood bank equal to his or her chosen vampire's capacity. Each Methuselah then burns 5 pool. Only one Ancient Influence can be played in a game.


Reins of Power
Political Action

Successful referendum means each Methuselah may choose a ready vampire he or she controls. Each Methuselah gains 6 pool. Each Methuselah also burns an amount of pool equal to the capacity of his or her predator's chosen vampire. Only one Reins of Power can be played or called in a game.

salem wrote:

Might need to also adjust for these....or not, if you like tac nukes.

Heh. Well, on the upside, they totally hose *everyone*--Ancient Influence is just "everyone lose 5 pool." which is far more likely to be bad for you than not. And the other one is "everyone lose pool equal to their predator's biggest vampire", which is also likely to make you lose by playing it.

I suspect that they would be not used much, due to simply them being a bad idea.