Let's Talk Rapid Thought!

Mephistopheles wrote:

I agree with Floppy. It doesn't make sense to eliminate every single pool gaining ability.

I also agree, and I, along with several other players, discussed for some time which cards should be banned, and there was some disagreement. Bakija, for example, doesn't believe that any cards need to be banned, whereas the majority of players believed the original version of the Rapid Thought Revised rules Banned List was too comprehensive (it included, fr.ex., Tupdog and Kindred Spirits). So we have the list of cards that we have now, which seems enough to create a feeling of a *very* different format as well as restraining the obvious, often-used cards for this purpose.

Mephistopheles wrote:

Though I still think that Ashur + Liquidation should be at least on the watch list. Partly because of the strong pool gain, but also because it has the real potential to steal on time heavily, which combined with the pool gain isn't too good...

Yesterday, I put up a new, slightly updated link for the Rapid Thought Revised rules: members.cox.net/kjm1971/RapidThoughtRevised.txt

Four things were changed:

1. 'Rules for "found" Banned Crypt or Library cards' was updated
2. Ashur Tablets and Liquidation were added to the Watch List
3. Tournament Points were expanded, allowing for all possibilities
4. Pascal Bertrand was given credit for his help

floppyzedolfin wrote:

Do you consider banning all this bunch of cards (including all vampires except very few) for the sake of "Pool should only go down, except when you're ousting someone" ?

Might I say I'd find it ridiculous?

As I pointed out, it might be prudent (in the name of making things go faster) to make a blanket rule that said:

"Any time you would gain pool unless it is from ousting your prey, move that pool to the blood bank instead".

All those cards are still playable. You just can't gain pool.

You really don't like Life Boon, do you ?

I also agree with Emiliano about the "let's all contest Aranthebes or time out" play.

bakija wrote:

As I pointed out, it might be prudent (in the name of making things go faster) to make a blanket rule that said:

"Any time you would gain pool unless it is from ousting your prey, move that pool to the blood bank instead".

All those cards are still playable. You just can't gain pool.

That's an easy rule to remember, granted, but that's also a hell of a lot of effects that gain you pool that now don't. I'm not sure I want THAT large a change to the format.

And what about PB:Montreal, Govern/Enchant "down", and similar "efficiency" effects? Wouldn't those be the next targets? And then where does it stop?

KevinM wrote:

That's an easy rule to remember, granted, but that's also a hell of a lot of effects that gain you pool that now don't. I'm not sure I want THAT large a change to the format.

Well, sure. Robba suggested that pool gain should be removed, and rather than banning a bunch of cards, you could just do this instead. I don't know that it is something that *needs* doing, but if the intent is to reduce pool gain, and if you are going to go down a path of banning cards that gain you pool (which often has been a part of this particular format), rather than banning all those cards, a rule like I suggest is probably a better way to go. Clean, easy, simple, and doesn't ban a whole bunch of cards.

Again, to be clear, I'm not necessarily arguing that this is the most optimal plan or anything. But if you are going to ban Blood Doll and Vessel and Villein and Minion Tap and Tribute and Voter Cap and Con Boon and whatever, why not just cut out the middle man?

And what about PB:Montreal, Govern/Enchant "down", and similar "efficiency" effects? Wouldn't those be the next targets? And then where does it stop?

The rule I presented was incredibly cut and dry, intentionally--if you are going to gain pool from any source other than ousting someone, you don't gain that pool (I also probably should have left the Edge in there too...). Those cards (Govern, Montreal, whatever) don't add counters to your pool. So they don't fall under the rule I suggested. Yeah, they effectively give you pool, but as they aren't actually adding counters to your pool and instead are just getting you more guys, and more guys speeds the game up anyway, it seems reasonable to leave those effects alone. If you can't pull blood off your guys, or gain pool from votes, or transfer blood off your uncontrolled guys, and you can only gain pool from ousting someone (and possibly the Edge), that will vastly reduce the amount of pool floating around the table. Yeah, Montreal and Govern still get you guys out faster and freer, but that strikes me as completely reasonable for this format.