file Hear the rumor about the WoD Living Card Game?

15 Mar 2013 17:39 #46103 by Amenophobis

With the stupid antitribu/non-antitribu split, do we really want more clan-specific cards? I saw in PCK's Sabbat set that they tried to "help" !nosf!, !gang!, and !bruj! in just that way. It didn't deal with the underlying issue of discipline inadequacy. I hope that VEKN's set doesn't try to shoehorn in sweeping bleed defense for just one of those Sabbat clans, for instance. If new cards are being imposed on the game, I think that dual-discipline cards are the way to go. For example, an :ani:/:obf: plus bleed card with limited pool gain.


Most players would likely concur that the design of the Antitribu clans could have been done a lot better. LSJ gave an example of that by doing Independents of different sects.

Starting with the premise that it's not possible to retro-actively merge Antitribu with their counterpart clans, we have to go with the status quo. This means that clan cards are the best solution to address "weak" clans.

Of course, the !nosf! could very well use a dual discipline card with :ani::obf: which would in theory cover part of their weakness. However, whenever a new dual-discipline card is introduced into the game, it will have unexpected and even unwanted side effects. Do the :nosf:, who have access to all the shiny Camarilla-tech also need the same boost like their Sabbat counerparts? That is quite debatable.

I can think of 3 already strong vampires that could benefit to varying degrees from a :ani::obf: bleed boost with pool gain card:
Cybele
Enkidu
Lucian the Perfect

And there are surely more out there.

I'm a fan of precise tools for clans that need a boost.

I agree though, that not all disciplines are equally strong. It has been that way right from the start, and it's hard to change that radically wihtout upsetting the fragile balance of VTES.

But I'm always open to suggestions. :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Mar 2013 18:03 #46104 by Ohlmann

But I'm always open to suggestions. :)


Let's be honest : you're like any other player. It's more the ones who work on future sets that would be interested in a non-rhetorical way :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Mar 2013 19:38 #46105 by AaronC

Translating the rpg stuff to vtes wasnt done appropriately. Dominate requires eye contact most of the time. And using it on a higher gen vamp is stupid hard if not impossible. In the fiction, there are umpteen references to not looking a vamp in the eye that is older.

Deflection is too good to be really tied to lore. Dementations effects are downplayed in vtes, as are certain auspex powers, and the end all be all in vtm of protean is one of the weakest things in vtes. Dont even get me started on tham and necro. They arent disciplines, but a series of spells and such.

Oh, and the gangrel dont suck so bad in vtm.
What im getting at is much of the flawed parts of the game are becauseof not adhering properly to the fluff.


You make a good point that some of the discipline translations aren't accurate in VTES. Dominate, especially, can do things in the game that couldn't be done in the RPG. There are several people on the threads who have written that some disciplines and clans could be made better by making things that are currently too good (Deflection, Parity Shift) worse.

At the same time, I still think that mental disciplines give a vampire greater influence in a general sense than physical ones do, thus Mr. Garfield's making them so powerful in the original game.

And Old Man - I think powers of 6 or more dots are technically very hard to get. Basic characters couldn't get them unless they paid to start as 8th generation and then diablerized an older vampire. And then they had to pay the skill points, whose expense increases geometrically for every dot.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Mar 2013 20:42 - 15 Mar 2013 20:43 #46106 by Ohlmann

You make a good point that some of the discipline translations aren't accurate in VTES. Dominate, especially, can do things in the game that couldn't be done in the RPG.


Well, in fact, it work on the opposite sense : a lot of thing you can do with Auspex and/or dominate in the RPG cannot be done in the card game. Don't forget that with 3 in dominate you can rewrite the memory of someone you have captured and/or implant deep order in them. And with 4 in domination, you actually can make him permanently join your cause (well, until someone else with dom 4 capture him, that is ...). It's a lot easier to pull off in the RPG than in the card game, where you need to put him in torpor and get no benefit other than the change of controller.

(yes, in the RPG, dominate is way too powerful. It's usually hidden because GM just don't let people slaughter their campaign with creative use of dominate, and also don't let their NPC do what any prince with 4 in dominate would do with dangerous individual, that is reprogram them completely)

And Old Man - I think powers of 6 or more dots are technically very hard to get. Basic characters couldn't get them unless they paid to start as 8th generation and then diablerized an older vampire. And then they had to pay the skill points, whose expense increases geometrically for every dot.


For player, you're right. Except VtES isn't about group of PCs.

For vampires at large, less so. 8th generation ain't something that rare, especially in Europa vampire. IIRC, each Paris primogen are 8th generation or less. And dominate 6 is extremely attractive no matter how you look at it. By the way, NPC with dominate 6+ aren't rare by any mean.

And, of course, Presence 1 is extremely easy to get. it's neither expensive nor hard to learn, and it's surprisingly effective to make someone look at your eye. There is also the option to stake someone to prevent him from closing his eye. Imaginative people can find a lot of other way to see the eye of someone.
Last edit: 15 Mar 2013 20:43 by Ohlmann.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Mar 2013 21:00 #46107 by Reyda

Don't forget that with 3 in dominate you can rewrite the memory of someone you have captured and/or implant deep order in them. And with 4 in domination, you actually can make him permanently join your cause (well, until someone else with dom 4 capture him, that is ...)

mmm, if I may ask, isn't exactly what Bonding, Govern the unaligned and far mastery actually do ? :dry:

Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Mar 2013 21:44 #46108 by Lech

Don't forget that with 3 in dominate you can rewrite the memory of someone you have captured and/or implant deep order in them. And with 4 in domination, you actually can make him permanently join your cause (well, until someone else with dom 4 capture him, that is ...)

mmm, if I may ask, isn't exactly what Bonding, Govern the unaligned and far mastery actually do ? :dry:

Cough ... Mind Rape ... Cough. And thanks for donation.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.087 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum