file Hear the rumor about the WoD Living Card Game?

17 Mar 2013 04:17 #46129 by ReverendRevolver

planet-vampire.net/forum/index.php?topic=4706.0

Menele(brujah),Augustus(gio),Marcellus Rufus(las),Silvester de Ruiz(las),Zambra Matour(las),Baba Yaga(nos),Christopher Houghton(tor),Hideon Yaroslavich(tzi), Gotsdam(ven),Gustav Breidenstein(ven),Hardestadt(ven), Lodin(ven),Lucius Trebius Rufus(ven).

Bit low amount, too low to support your thesis Ohlmann. Mainly really low generation vampires, and from clans that have dominate in clan.

Also, which may surprise you, not many kindred know what exactly dominate 6 really does (and it's just one of the possible option, if i recall right every discipline above 6 have more than one "path", dominate have at least 9 such "paths" so not everyone with dominate 6 can bypass eye contact requirement, most can't)(not to mention few - if any - of those would even consider using cell phones - those are PARANOID, traditional creatures).


Thats a cool list, but its ommitting important vamps, evsn tho it has other ones from the same sourcebooks. I only looked at the gangrel and brujah, but immidiately, no enkidu or karsh ( kmw and cotn, respectively) and i think i saw no count germaine(kmw, p. 62-66) .
Anyway, dominate 6+ is at any rate nit accesible to lets say Dylan. Good pedigree, 6th gen, chijde of gotsdam, 11 total disciplines, dominate is only honed to 2 tho. He COULD get better at it, but doesnt. I dont see how someone weaker thanthe formidable dylan could have enough oomph as a 10-13 genvamp todivert a bleed( diverting will and intent) of lets say Hardestadt the younger or eleimelech ir the cynning saulot. Its little dominate weenies that really go against possibility.
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18 Mar 2013 15:19 #46140 by prunesquallor

Just a quick opinion:
if the new one is compatible with vtes and the old cards can be used, then I am game.
if not, then I am abolutely not interested and not going to support the new one at all


I'm pretty sure the new game will not be compatible in a supported way - FFG won't consider the old cards when designing, balancing, or providing faq answers.

But that doesn't mean very much - if the games are close enough, then many VtES cards can be converted to the new game. Or again with some conversion guidelines, the new cards could be converted to VtES. This would need to be a fan effort.

As Wormhole Surfer said regarding Netrunner, there are things lacking in Android Netrunner, but there is no disputing that it's a lot easier to find opponents for the new game, and that having a steadily evolving meta-game makes a big difference.

If the new game is good and popular, we'll have the choice of adapting to it in some way, ignoring it, or competing with it. To me, the only good option is to adapt; ignoring it is to be like the card Anachronism, and competing with it doesn't seem likely to succeed. (and if the game is terrible, we can safely ignore it, it will soon be gone)

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18 Mar 2013 16:11 - 18 Mar 2013 16:11 #46143 by Ohlmann

Yes. One vamp (the prince) in a city of 500 000+ kine has Dominate 6+. I call that “rare”.


Side note : there is the ratio is 1 kine for 100.000 vampire as a maximum (and often a lot less so, by the lore). Atlanta urban area being WAY bigger than 500.000 inhabitants (I suppose 500.000 is the figure of the main city ?), it mean 1 vampire with dom 6 for maximum 50 vampire, and likely 20. So it's "rare" as in "1 on 20"

People tend to forget that there is something like 2000 to 10.000 vampires on the whole earth. I can understand, because the extremely small size of vampire population and the extreme power of some discipline may not be conductive to good roleplay ; you just forgot that VtES is about the lore in general, not your personal interpretation.
Last edit: 18 Mar 2013 16:11 by Ohlmann.

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18 Mar 2013 19:42 #46146 by Ashur

Yes. One vamp (the prince) in a city of 500 000+ kine has Dominate 6+. I call that “rare”.


Side note : there is the ratio is 1 kine for 100.000 vampire as a maximum (and often a lot less so, by the lore). Atlanta urban area being WAY bigger than 500.000 inhabitants (I suppose 500.000 is the figure of the main city ?), it mean 1 vampire with dom 6 for maximum 50 vampire, and likely 20. So it's "rare" as in "1 on 20"

People tend to forget that there is something like 2000 to 10.000 vampires on the whole earth. I can understand, because the extremely small size of vampire population and the extreme power of some discipline may not be conductive to good roleplay ; you just forgot that VtES is about the lore in general, not your personal interpretation.

Sorry, my english is not very good (just top grades, not more). What do you mean?

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

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26 Mar 2013 15:05 - 26 Mar 2013 15:18 #46266 by RoddimusPrime
I will make a reply to the original topic posted.

I have not heard anything beyond rumors of a new World of Darkness Living Card Game (LCG) or otherwise. But, one thing to consider is if it is indeed true that it is being play tested, and comes to fruition, then this could of course potentially hurt print and play. But, that is yet another speculation of which I doubt Hasbro has little say in. However, if CCP is being given a choice between a new game with FFG and print and play with VTES, the obvious better choice for a business is going to be a new game with FFG. You can argue all you want about a player base that is already installed, etc. but that won't help the truth of the matter.

FFG gave a similar treatment to Netrunner, albeit it probably has more in common with the original Netrunner than a new World of Darkness game would with VTES. And lets not forget the old Netrunner community was split with the new game on the horizon. There were those in that community who said they would not play unless they could use their old cards. Or some few would only play if it was the same rules. Well, I sold all my old Netrunner cards as it was hard to acquire various cards, fewer people to play with, and generally hard to find adequate support for. And the new system was great in the LCG format. If I had never played Netrunner and approached a new game that people also used their old cards from the previous version for, I think it would simply be too much. It also is a hassle to try and reprint all the old cards. You have to think from a business perspective as well.

It is much easier to attain new clientele if they don't have to struggle with old cards or a huge amount of reprints in addition to the new game. I think the new Netrunner game was an awesome way to go about things and I fully support the game.

And it sounds like to me that if this rumored World of Darkness game does come to light, that it will be a slightly different game anyway. And I prefer it that way. I don't want a new game commingled with another system that honestly has a lot of baggage (drama, legalities, differing opinions, old rules) and is a mess to try and incorporate a dead game with something new, esp. if they want to make a different angle on it. That could doom the possibility of a new game. Rather making something new and letting each game be it's own thing is the best idea. And of course there is room to make new and different games based out of the World of Darkness, including living card games.

Heck, FFG made X-Wing and there were various Star Wars minis games prior to it. Another decent game. And given their track record, I think FFG (or even AEG) could do well making an LCG game based on the World of Darkness. I am not skeptical and I welcome new games and support. While the consequences could be either good or bad or neither for VTES, I would like to see more people involved in the World of Darkness, even if that means it doesn't aim to help VTES out.

Are you really going to be whining about a new World of Darkness LCG that barrows elements from VTES, that isn't VTES? If it isn't VTES, then continue on playing VTES. If people are bored with VTES or they like another system or game better then so be it. They are all games. And while some people are die hards, who not only support VTES, but are against anything that isn't VTES or could shrink the groups numbers, I find that line of logic quite interesting. I understand wanting a game that has gone to torpor twice to revive and carry on, but odds are if print and play does not occur then the groups numbers throughout time will simply shrink. It's basic math. And even if it does occur, how many new players will come into the fold versus a system that may be more accommodating or alluring to them? At the end of the day, VTES or any other game is simply a hobby. If you let it consume you and narrow your vision then that is your choice, but a silly one. Odds are you have put a lot of time and money into the game. And there is a rich history and uniqueness. But, you shouldn't stand in the way of potential new games that may barrow elements, reinvent, and/or offer something refreshing. Sometimes the best way to unify people is to adopt something new. A lot of games, be it board, or card games either go through changes, come out with a new system or edition, barrow elements, or even carry on as a spiritual successor or simply adopt a game design under fresh new paint.

I stand open to new possibilities. And I hope the best for VTES, but I also hope that other game designers and publishers aren't afraid to present and sell their own stuff as well.
Last edit: 26 Mar 2013 15:18 by RoddimusPrime.
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27 Mar 2013 05:12 #46282 by ReverendRevolver
Comparing vtes and netrunner is something that looses zteam quickly. We have died and resurfaced. We have the owod as our fluff. We are a genre in and of ourselves, twofold.(horror, and the best multiplayer ccg there is)
Netrunner was decidedly the weakest of the garfeild games.
Rodd, you seem too sold on the lcg buisness model to see the big picture here. White wolf went to shit because they replaced thier cash cow that was the owod with the too-little-too-late nwod. Having a card game based in the owod screams bad idea, due to imbalance. Horror card games with no established fanbase is bad investing. But there is in this case wod fans. Owod, camarilla fan club types to be exact. Who would hate a crossover game that sucked. So, the nwod is much more attractive in that light. But the 3 core games, vtr, wtf,andmta all sucked, and only the ctl,ptc,and htv were awesome. Now, lets assume we get a living carx game starting with the 3 core races. It takes a shit. Now, we have these expansions that the entire project is riding on. Can you imagine settlers of catan being gerrible and useless without expansions? Magic the gathering if only mercadian masques and 6th edition were the extent of the cardpool? Zombies without cards or the helipad in the box?

We are talking about a game that cant support itself. So, make a 6 splat nwod lcg, and MAYBE it will be a-OK. god knows id love a ctl cardgame. But the bottomline is i doubt they care about us, as the vtes community. The lcg isnt vtes, we have our own agenda, and a very different game. Pod doesnt mean anything to ffg, steve weick will make money in barrels regardless of some lcg that some vtes players drop$30 on between pod orders. Wotc makes nothing from ffg. They dont care. The vtes community wants a new set, not a new game.

And again, you are too sold on the lcg format. Its hot for some games, where all should be even, but im not convincex the decidedly uneven worlds of darkness are right for it. If it sucks, whatever, if not, sweet, im stealing players from it. But im not that intimidated. They arent killing our game or even remaking it. Its to us what EPIC was to magic, although i wish them more luck than that.

And whining? Not about the game, but about our game, and little nuances therein mostly.

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