Hear the rumor about the WoD Living Card Game?

Count wrote:

I'm curious whether FFG does all of their playtesting internally. I'm sure there are many VTES players who would like some input in the process.

Glad to see they're keeping agg damage. I'm a little iffy on removing range, however.

I'd guess they just do it out of their Event Center as it is an easy controlled place to do it. They have a bunch of their teams that go there after work to unwind play some games so most people there know internal FFG people on a personal level.

If they shipped playtests all over they'd be scanned on online within moments.

Maybe it's not that bad. This could be something to actually bring people over to VtES. I honestly doubt this new LCG would reach the level of VtES anytime soon. Given similar, but streamlined game mechanics, this could become something like a balanced introduction into WoD card games with VtES being much deeper and complex bigger brother for those hooked-up.

kombainas wrote:

Maybe it's not that bad. This could be something to actually bring people over to VtES. I honestly doubt this new LCG would reach the level of VtES anytime soon. Given similar, but streamlined game mechanics, this could become something like a balanced introduction into WoD card games with VtES being much deeper and complex bigger brother for those hooked-up.

That is like saying people will go from the Starwars LCG back to the Starwars CCG. People don't tend to like to change back to a less streamlined more clunky version of a game they enjoy.

Just look at the Modern game market, overly complex clunky games are dying while clean and streamline games are thriving.

LordNat wrote:

Just look at the Modern game market, overly complex clunky games are dying while clean and streamline games are thriving.

overly complex clunky game like Magic ?

That's too much of an oversimplification to say the new game will be clean and streamlined, and VtES comparatively complex and clunky.

Ohlmann wrote:

LordNat wrote:

Just look at the Modern game market, overly complex clunky games are dying while clean and streamline games are thriving.

overly complex clunky game like Magic ?

That's too much of an oversimplification to say the new game will be clean and streamlined, and VtES comparatively complex and clunky.

Magic has been highly streamlined. Modern Magic looks vary little like the older magic. Take a gander at the Standard format some time.

Also if we compare FFG's work on Netrunner and Starwars than yes it is likely V:TES will be seen as complex and clunky.

LordNat wrote:

Magic has been highly streamlined. Modern Magic looks vary little like the older magic. Take a gander at the Standard format some time.

I actually play standard. I believe you are utterly wrong, since the fifth edition there have been no real evolution ; the only one was a slight complexification of the rule, with the stack disappering in one specific case.

Also, there is the smallish thing that, with adding rule every set, specific cases are added with a steady rate. I don't think anything in VtES can approach the sheer complexity of Madness, but even simply the interaction between planewalker that have became creatures and other spell are extremely clunky.

LordNat wrote:

Also if we compare FFG's work on Netrunner and Starwars than yes it is likely V:TES will be seen as complex and clunky.

I don't know for star war, but Netrunner have something like two rule changes at all, who are both pretty neutral in complexity, and in any case in not-so-important compartiment of the rule.

Non-CCG game also don't seem to be less complex or more streamlined. I can actually think of some who have done the reverse (small world vs Vinci). And chess don't seem to lose any popularity, while it have one hell of clunky ruleset.

Lastly, even if it were true, it does not prove that it's actually something that matter to player. Modern games differ from old one on a lot more than "streamlining" ; it's more that there is a lot of factor where game designer got better, and that help. And VtES may have a significant part of thoses already, like magic had.

I believe you have a predefined view (games become more streamlined and less complex and that make them more successful) and try to make the reality conform to your view. Reality, like alway, is more complex than that. Especially since, believe it or not, one of the most important factor in success is luck.

(side note : I know the irony of explaining to someone that he try too much to make reality fit his view)