Tournament rules regarding different backs on cards.

If cheating is not a problem in VTES, which I believe is the case for reasons I stated elsewhere, the rules should still have one standard.

I still haven't read any justification why I'm not allowed to sleeve all my Jyhad-backed cards black and all my non-Jyhad backed cards green.

Just to show one the issues I'm talking about. Here's the library from the latest of Peter Bakija's decks that show up in the TWDA :

1x Far Mastery
12x Govern the Unaligned
2x Harass
4x Rumble
4x Bonding
4x Murmur of the False Will
6x High Ground
4x Stunt Cycle
6x Target Vitals
6x Taste of Vitae
12x Thrown Gate
1x Anarch Troublemaker
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
2x Haven Uncovered
1x Political Hunting Ground
1x Potence
1x Power Structure
2x Vessel
8x Deflection
2x Delaying Tactics
4x On the Qui Vive
4x Wake with Evening's Freshness

For the sake of simplicity I will assume that the mix of Jyhad and VTES backs is 45/45.

First, there are 8 cards that are only included in a single copy. These 8 have no chance of being mixed. Remembering which back these 8 cards have is quite easy, and gives some advantage.
Of the 6 rush cards (2 Harass, 4 Rumble), none exist with Jyhad back. Knowing for a fact that your top card isn't a rush can be very useful information if playing a combat deck (whether it's good or bad for you in the current game is another thing though, I'm just pointing out that the information is given). I know that there are also 2 Haven Uncovered, I consider them master cards and not rush cards. Cycling cards in order to draw a rush usually means you want an action card that you can use that same turn (and it's while considering cycling cards to draw into what you need that the information given is most useful).

There are 12 bounce cards in total. 4 of them is a card that doesn't exist with Jyhad back (Murmur of the False Will). How are those to be split between different backs? 4 Murmur and 2 Deflection with VTES backs and 6 Deflections from Jyhad? Or should each card be separatly mixed, giving us 4 Murmur and 4 Deflections with VTES backs and 4 Deflections with Jyhad backs? The latter way would give us a higher concentration of bounce with VTES backs.

Same goes for wake cards. 4 out of 8 doesn't exist with Jyhad backs. Do we split them 4/4? Or 2/6? Which of these two options would be considered to be "sufficiently mixed".

Even if we ignore these examples (single copies, cards that doesn't exist with Jyhad backs), there's a rather big difference between guessing from a deck of 45 cards and a deck of 90 cards (or 30 vs 60, or some other 50%/50% ratio depending on your deck size). Why should this easier top decking be allowed for anyone?
Why should it not be allowed for everyone, regardless of whether they sleeve their cards or not?


And I'll add a disclaimer here. I'm not accusing Peter Bakija of cheating during that, or any other tournament. That's not the point here. I just took one of his decks as an example since he stated earlier that he tried to have "a good mix of of Jyhad or 3rd Ed cards" . I just want to point out that you can't have a perfect mix. I want to show that even if some players doesn't consider it, the information is given through the backs of the cards.
I believe that no matter how hard you try, there will be some issues like the ones I pointed out above (in almost all decks). And even in decks where you don't have single copies of any cards, so you actually can split all cards into 50% Jyhad backs and 50% VTES backs you will have a much easier time guessing the top card of your library. In some games you will even be able to know for 100% certainty when you're down to your last few cards (can be as low as 10-15 cards easy, higher with some "luck").

And I didn't even touch the fact that different printings should be "sufficiently mixed" as well, which increases the problem.

Izaak wrote:

If cheating is not a problem in VTES, which I believe is the case for reasons I stated elsewhere, the rules should still have one standard.

I still haven't read any justification why I'm not allowed to sleeve all my Jyhad-backed cards black and all my non-Jyhad backed cards green.

That would be marking the cardbacks.

Regarding the back, he difference between a Jyhad card and a Lords of the Night card is that the Jyhad only comes with the Jyahd word on the back. From printers.
If you sleeve a Jyhad card black and a LotN card green, you're creating a difference that isn't inherent to the card.

Judges' wrote:

132. Marked Cards - Observable pattern

Definition:

A player's cards are marked with no pattern to the types of cards that are marked. If a player is using opaque sleeves, they are taken into consideration instead of the actual cards

Haze wrote:

HOW ABOUT WE PUT ALL THE DECKS IN AN ADJACENT ROOM. WHEN YOU NEED TO DRAW A CARD, TELL A VEKN MESSENGER BOY HOW MANY YOU NEED AND YOUR ID NUMBER, AND HE'LL FETCH THEM FOR YOU.

EVEN BETTER, WE PLAY WITH A BOX COVERING THE DECK. YOU PUT YOUR HAND IN THE BOX TO DRAW AN UNSEEN CARD. IF YOU FEEL A STRANGE TINGLING THAT TURNS INTO INTENSE BURNING PAIN, YOU ARE BEING TESTED.

I'll ask the LackeyCCG and Jyhad OnLine guys if they can kindly add a plugin that would sleeve cards (with opaque sleeves).

Haze wrote:

HOW ABOUT WE PUT ALL THE DECKS IN AN ADJACENT ROOM. WHEN YOU NEED TO DRAW A CARD, TELL A VEKN MESSENGER BOY HOW MANY YOU NEED AND YOUR ID NUMBER, AND HE'LL FETCH THEM FOR YOU.

EVEN BETTER, WE PLAY WITH A BOX COVERING THE DECK. YOU PUT YOUR HAND IN THE BOX TO DRAW AN UNSEEN CARD. IF YOU FEEL A STRANGE TINGLING THAT TURNS INTO INTENSE BURNING PAIN, YOU ARE BEING TESTED.

You don't need to shout. Most can read you clearly.

Pascal wrote:

yappo wrote:

Let's say you're NOT allowed to show your hidden resources to another player. By playing a sleeveless deck after the first V:EKN fan-based set is tournament legal you are indeed SHOWING all players at the table that your deck does not include any cards from said set, which would be illegal.

Incorrect.
Letting other players know you're not playing cards from the VEKN fan-based sets is OK as much as letting other players know you're playing with Jyhad crypt cards (group 1-2 vampires).

So TR 4.4 is followed to the letter? In which case I'm allowed to reveal a card on a Storage Annex (because that card is neither in my hand nor in my uncontrolled region).