On how I hate Rego Motus

Reyda wrote:

Chaitan wrote:

With that said. THA truly suck in a real combat.

Sorry gentleman, but allow me to disagree here. THA had a big flaw for real combat, and it was the total lack of prevention.
Rego motus is here : problem solved.

<START OF A MOCKUP BATTLE. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PLAY ANY NUMBER OF COMBAT CARDS USING THAUMATARGY, EVEN ANARCH CARDS>

Beast with 7 blood enters combat with your <insert generic tremere with superior THA>

Beast play inferior Drawing out the Beast
Beast play superior Torn Signpost
Beast play superior Increased Strength
Beast play inferior Carrion Crows

<your move?>

Beast play superior Immortal Grapple
Beast play superior Undead Strength for 8+1 damage

<your strike?>

<This is where you play Rigo Motus if you so choose>

Beast play Taste of Vitae, Disarm and Decapitate

<Your move?>

<COMBAT ENDS>

<YOU HAVE WON THIS MOCKUP BATTLE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A MINION IN ASH HEAP>

Sorry for your dream scenario, but it doesn't work like this actually.

Beast rushes ? Ok, i just put a chump blocker in his path and if the beast player wants to wast 6+ cards to burn Almiro suarez, so be it, fine with me. If not, then he will be back during my master phase thanks to the Chantry.

I hope you don't get mad while reading this.

The argument wasn't about how good the decks are or if you can sacrifice something (lose the battle but win the war). It was about effectiveness of THA in a real fight.

Noferatu Hates You may not be the best of decks out there but it is a real decktype you see every once inawhile and its ability to clean up the table forces people to remember that the table meta can't be all about no-combat.

Chaitan wrote:

The argument wasn't about how good the decks are or if you can sacrifice something (lose the battle but win the war). It was about effectiveness of THA in a real fight.

Sorry to put it like this, but your last post was not an argument about the effectiveness of THA. It was just a nerd fantasy where you could play 7+ different cards one after another without trouble, with a full beast entering combat with a tremere. Which does not really happen usually.

Don't be silly, you know that even Uriah Winter, a 1 cap Caitiff (which happens to be my favorite vamp) can disarm/amaranth Arika or even Enkidu with 3 cards. But do you see it happen often ? non non... Is the Uriah Bomb a winning archetype ? Nope, neither.

Let's talk about what's really happening in a game, and not talk silly. Minions striking for 8 damage on a 5 cap tremere under a grapple, for exemple ? Not usually happening. They will hit you for just what they need to torp you, saving cards for the next combat, because they know how to play their game. Now, they must stay alert because a Rego motus can be in the way. That's what i'm talking about : real applications for a "new" card.

Chaitan wrote:

Noferatu Hates You may not be the best of decks out there but it is a real decktype you see every once inawhile and its ability to clean up the table forces people to remember that the table meta can't be all about no-combat.

I totally agree with you here.
But this archetype is usually badly annoyed by chump blockers getting in the way of the real targets. The same way that Tremere are usually badly annoyed against combat. But now, Tadaaa ! Rego Motus !

Reyda wrote:

THA had a big flaw for real combat, and it was the total lack of prevention.
Rego motus is here : problem solved.

Well, reality have shown that Rego Motus is not that good of a solution to Thaumaturgy problem. One of the reason for this is that it's very narrow, in a discipline full of narrow use card. Draw your soul burn against a potence rush ? Draw your Rego Motus against Animalism ? Draw theft of vitae against aggro poke ? Not your lucky day, punk. The fortitude version tend to be a lot less focused.

You have Heart and some other card to make up for that. Then again, you can also use them with other disciplines than thaumaturgy, even with tremere or magic of the smith.

You say that Rego Motus is lazy card design. A card of a very narrow focus, that need a lot of thought to either have cycle solution or fetching solution is clearly more lazy than Deflection.

Let's talk about what's really happening in a game, and not talk silly.

In a real game THA combat packet consist of 70-90% Theft of Vitae. The rest is a mix of Apportation, Walk of Flame and Rego Motus.

In a real game RM will probably save you from going to torpor even against ANI or CEL or POT combat that round.

In a real game ANI, CEL, POT simply press to the next round and in a real game you are most likely out of RM by now.

In a real game you will hate having RM on your hand when stealth/vote or stealth/bleed decks fiercly target your pool.

Seriously, if you hate RM you probably have one person in your playgroup who has adapted to your meta and inserted just the right amount of RM to specifically cancel that type of combat you often use.

Solution is not to cry foul against a card that is OK at best. It is to change the meta.