file Osebo NO!

09 Oct 2012 12:24 - 09 Oct 2012 12:37 #38713 by Ke.
Replied by Ke. on topic Re: Osebo NO!

This is the crux of the matter, I want this to be a combat deck. what am I missing?


Ousting power.

Why would anyone block your bleeds for 1? Maybe add a few Ancestor's insight.

And Nose of the hounds to rush — you have no rush.

Add Fame, Dragonbound and maybe Tension in the Ranks. Eagle Sight could be used to catch your prey — so maybe a few 419 operations would help once they're all in torpor.

Also, you have loads of AUS — but no bounce? At least add some Telepathic Misdirections.

Finally, convince your local players that they play with bullshit rules — there is no 6 card limit in VTES.

Ke
Last edit: 09 Oct 2012 12:37 by Ke.. Reason: Toned down

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09 Oct 2012 12:28 - 10 Oct 2012 12:57 #38714 by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Re: Osebo NO!

this is correct, My goal is to weaken my prey so much, or strike enough fear of combat into them that I can slow-bleed them.Clearly I haven't achieved this.

You need spare actions for that. An intercept deck gets room to act by playing wakes. 6 Eyes of Argus are not enough, you need at least 6 more, for example 3 On the Qui vive, 2 Forced Awakening, 1 Wake.

But anyway, it is far too slow to reasonably oust. Even a simple Arcane Library might be enough to keep you at bay. You have several options to oust:
-the combat package: Fame, Tension in the Ranks, Dragonbound, Codex of the Edenic Grounskeepers,
-the intercept package: Smiling Jack mainly (eventually Anarch Revolt), 419 Operation,
-the Laibon package: Ancestor spirit mainly (eventually Kduva's Mask), Ancestor's Insight.
Pick what you want, but you need to do better than bleeds for 1.

This is the crux of the matter, I want this to be a combat deck. what am I missing?

6 Psyche to begin with :laugh:

Seriously, it is very hard to play combat with card limits because your opponents can still play 12 combat ends if they want while you are stuck with 6 grapples only. But the Osebo have access to a lot of permanent Strength increase (Enforcer and Preternatural Strength), which makes a combined approach Psyche + Grapple possible.
Last edit: 10 Oct 2012 12:57 by Boris The Blade.

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09 Oct 2012 12:30 #38715 by Suoli
Replied by Suoli on topic Re: Osebo NO!

My goal is to weaken my prey so much, or strike enough fear of combat into them that I can slow-bleed them.Clearly I haven't achieved this.


This is a bad plan in general. Every non-wall prey you could have will either bloat too much, oust too fast or Deflect too much for your bleeds of 1 to have any impact. If wall decks have either better combat or Blood Dolls/Vessels you are, again, ineffective. At the very least you should be playing Fame, rush cards, Camera Phones and Smiling Jack. That won't turn this into a great deck but it might make it an acceptable casual deck.

I want this to be a combat deck. what am I missing?


Cards that say "enter combat". Without them, you are letting your opponents dictate when, if and with whom you get to fight. Start with at least 6x Bum's Rush and 1x Powerbase: Luanda. Haven Uncovered might be an acceptable replacement if you can't get the latter.

Other improvements:
Cut Blood Puppy. It's unplayably bad. Use Mbare Market or pretty much any of the Powerbases instead.
Cut Bravo. You currently have exactly 0 ways to succesfully enter combat as an action. Even if you did, Perfectionist would still be better.
Cut Bang Nakhs. It's not worth the pool and doesn't work with Grapple. Use Preternatural Strength, Ivory Bow, Enforcer or Baseball Bat instead, according to availability.
Cut Ghoul Messengers. They will only give your opponents an easy way to dump intercept cards without tapping or having to fight you. See Perfectionist + Leather Jacket/Baseball Bat for a similar effect that doesn't completely suck.
Switch Burnt Offerings to Telepathic Misdirections. Make your prey burn the pool instead of you and your predator.
Add 6x On the Qui Vive/other wake. 12 is a minimum for a 90 card wall deck.
Cut Growing Fury, it's just unplayable. Play Disarms and Slams or something instead.

For further pointers, I would look for tournament winning wall/combat decks and see what they do differently. Here's one example:
thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011pstf55

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09 Oct 2012 12:30 - 09 Oct 2012 12:32 #38716 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Re: Osebo NO!
Well, there are a coulpe of, even minor, things you could do to make the deck even tournament legal. :)

The crypt might fit nicely into G4-5 with dropping Kisha, who doesn't really fit into the general combatty aspect of the deck anyways. I would add a second Uzoma.

Concealed Weapons and Bang Nakhs are the second thing I think should go. They do not really mesh well with the immortal grapples you have. That, too, would help in reducing the deck within the tournament legal 90 card standard. I'm not saying you should, but I am saying this might help the deck to work better. :)

There are some weird concepts in there as well, like three copies of Bowl of Convergence. It's unique, so shouldn't you settle with one one? Permanent intercept is easily achieved by, say, Anima Gathering or Sport Bike. They even stack with Bowl!

If you want to have some more blood, I wouldn't really go with Ghoul Messengers. A procurer would do the same, really, and it's easier to use as well - he costs some blood, sure, but I don't see that as a real problem. Ghoul messenger costs you actions! So, I'd change those three Ghoul Messengers to 1x Ghoul Messenger, 1x Procurer, and something else, like another master.

About masters, I can't see why you'd want to play two Carvers. One should be plenty enough! Instead I'd like to see an auspex master in there to get the best out of your reactions. Some permanent intercept in the form of news radios or other media locations might be worthwhile as well.

And here comes the thing: you could oust as well as block stuff! :) Play two copies of Fame, and a Tension in the Ranks. If you decide to use Dragonbound, Carvers can really wreck games. Another idea to deal pool damage while blocking and combating is Anarch Revolt or Smiling Jack, the Anarch.

I can't see why you would play maximum copies of both Burnt Offerings as well as Sins of Cauchemar. Maybe reduce both to 2 copies, and add some more wakes, like On the Qui Vive and Forced Awakening? You should really play some bounce in there as well! At least 4 Telepathic Misdirections should be a must in any AUS deck.

The combat package seems pretty cool, but I'd consider playing some Telepathic Misdirections (if not Psyche!s) for you to go through Combat Ends when you can't have a grapple.

The lack of the simplest forms of bloat is pretty bad as well. You'll need to add some vessels or blood dolls in there to keep yourself alive. Eagle's Sight is a great card as well, when you'll really need to take care of that famed vampire that's not taking an undirected action.

Hope it helps!

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-Nalia De-Arnise

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Last edit: 09 Oct 2012 12:32 by Kraus.

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09 Oct 2012 12:39 #38718 by Ohlmann
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: Osebo NO!

And here comes the thing: you could oust as well as block stuff! :) Play two copies of Fame, and a Tension in the Ranks. If you decide to use Dragonbound, Carvers can really wreck games. Another idea to deal pool damage while blocking and combating is Anarch Revolt or Smiling Jack, the Anarch.


While Dragonbound, Tension, and Fame may work, it's telling that even combat-ish deck are moving away from thoses when they can. They tend to be subpar solutions when played optimally, which is very hard (you need to analyze the table situation pretty well before dropping a Dragonbound).

I would say a "modern" way to oust in combat would be Pulse of the canaille and other permanent bleed (the unique retainer and/or equipment like a laptop or cameraphone) with a dash of Flurry of Action and / or Andre Leroux.

And of course, blood doll / minion tap to make sure you can have 2-3 minion on table.

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09 Oct 2012 12:41 #38719 by Suoli
Replied by Suoli on topic Re: Osebo NO!
Forgot to mention Well-Marked. It's basically free prevent, play 3-4 copies.
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