file Imbuided - Dead or Alive?

03 Mar 2018 11:22 - 03 Mar 2018 11:23 #85534 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic Imbuided - Dead or Alive?

It seems you're confusing elegance and simplicity / complexity, or our definitions differ.


Not confused at all, I for one have played the game since 1995 at least ;) You should really try it.

Elegance is the quality of being graceful, stylish, neat, clean, etc. VTES having 22+ clans and 30 disciplines makes it more complex that it would be otherwise


New clans and disciplines after the Jyhad release, was not what added more complexity, it just added more content and depth. What really added more complexity was new keywords and cards (or even rules) that interacted with them, events, new titles (and ways of tallying votes) and imbueds.

Thing is, once you know how and when to play card types (action/combat/master/etc.) then all you need to know about disciplines is that it's just a prerequisite for certain cards. Once you know what A discipline is, it doesn't really matter how many different disciplines are added to the game. Same applies to clans and sects, once you what either are and cards interact with A clan or A sect, it won't matter how many there are.

When you want to reduce clans and disciplines, you'd be reducing content, depth and overall richness. When you want to merge Strength with Bleed you are indeed reducing complexity but also creating a weird abstraction that might be prone to powercreep, it would also be a dilution of RPG elements.

Not saying VTES can do without some elements, the game needs some revision and nurturing afterall, but overall the system is good and an elegant port of a RPG game and has enough flair for people to still play it after being discontinued for quite some time.

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Last edit: 03 Mar 2018 11:23 by GreyB.
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04 Mar 2018 14:57 #85544 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Imbuided - Dead or Alive?

It seems you're confusing elegance and simplicity / complexity, or our definitions differ.


Not confused at all, I for one have played the game since 1995 at least ;) You should really try it.


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04 Mar 2018 15:29 #85546 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Imbuided - Dead or Alive?

It seems you're confusing elegance and simplicity / complexity, or our definitions differ.


Not confused at all, I for one have played the game since 1995 at least ;) You should really try it.


TOUCHÉ!


Really try to play the game since 1995? Lol.

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08 Mar 2018 23:58 - 08 Mar 2018 23:59 #85635 by Blooded Sand

The biggest issue with Malk 94 is that it is so simple and boring. Should that be called bad design too? People play Imbued. Therefore, they are successful design.


People eat poop. That means poop is an acceptable food. Your logic is false.

Imbued break several major tenets of game design, in a multitude of ways. (Consistency, Immersion, Continuity, Experience to name a few.)

Garfield's design considerations for Jyhad was that it would have none of the card flow power of MtG, and remove the mechanistic nature of a game that only ever has two participants. Introducing a segmented Win condition allowed for the meta game of what VtES is now to be created, where your ability to play a table is as important as your ability to play on that table.

Imbued go directly in contradiction to this by essentially creating a pseudo offshoot with it's own separate rule set,and a masturbatory play style. It has none of the fragility built into your pool and vampires. It does not interact with vast swathes of the game.

That is the logic, imho, of why Imbued are an example of execrable game design.

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Last edit: 08 Mar 2018 23:59 by Blooded Sand. Reason: Spelling
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09 Mar 2018 03:18 - 09 Mar 2018 12:40 #85636 by TwoRazorReign

Imbued break several major tenets of game design, in a multitude of ways. (Consistency, Immersion, Continuity, Experience to name a few.)


I like how you capitalized the first letter of each "tenet of game design" that you totally just made up.

Imbued go directly in contradiction to this by essentially creating a pseudo offshoot with it's own separate rule set,


Imbued bleed to the left the same as any other deck. The rules aren't that much of a deviation

and a masturbatory play style.


Malk94 has a self contained play style

It has none of the fragility built into your pool and vampires.


Ever see an imbued cast a vote? Or play a Blood Doll? There's fragility there.

It does not interact with vast swathes of the game.


Again, Same can be said about Malk94.
Last edit: 09 Mar 2018 12:40 by TwoRazorReign.

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09 Mar 2018 08:54 - 09 Mar 2018 08:55 #85641 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Imbuided - Dead or Alive?

It does not interact with vast swathes of the game.

Again, Same can be said about Malk94.

Not to the same extent. Being an ally makes you immune to a lot of cards (staple or not). The few cards that Imbued are vulnerable to as allies are mostly countered by a Conviction they come into play with.

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Last edit: 09 Mar 2018 08:55 by Ankha.

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