Number of VtES players

Lönkka wrote:

Lack of rotation (and extremely low number of banned cards) has traditionally been a very good selling point when doing demos for interested people...

I think I disagree? The lack of set rotation is often used as a selling point by people who already have lots of cards, but do new players actually see it that way?

I remember when I first started playing, I was super intimidated by and lost a bunch of games to people until my collection became as robust as theirs.

Food for thought. Maybe we can get a poll going or something for new players to provide some kind of metric as to what sold them on the game.

Ashur wrote:

Tadori wrote:

To properly balance CCG you have to reduce amount of cards to create design space and have an opportunity to reduce power level. There is no other way to fix some of the root problems.

I´d love to see some data on this. I have a feeling it largely depends on how greedy and eager to push new products (on usually young) audience the game manufacturer is. Examples are Decipher and (at least to some extent) FFG, because they seem to have rather horrible license deals for their IPs.

25 years of vtes having marginal numbers, failing multiple times, and losing much of its already small player base aren't enough?

I feel like this is what trump says after he talked to the NRA.

You don't need data, common sense is enough. If you make any new card you have to take in to considereation all of interaction between exisitng cards allready in play and thier power level. The more cards you have the harder it gets.

Aye, but saying common sense would be enough to warrant rotation as the best option is not really true. With every new rotation you have to make new calculations of the meta and how the new card cycles will behave, whereas if you have the same card pool to work with and make small additions to it on short intervals you have a static meta to tinker around with. That would make it easy to maintain in it's own way.

Rotation is a way to maintain a game. It is not the best, or the only reasonable way to maintain it.

As I've found in... well, basically anything, 'common sense' is not really a thing that even exists. In small groups it might be, but taking anything for granted is not getting accurate results. Especially when we talk about people. In customer service and whenever we deal with people nothing should be taken for granted, and there is no such thing as common sense.

And VtES and it's meta is really, really people dependent. Swaying from side to side and from place to place.

Just my 5c.

25 years of vtes having marginal numbers, failing multiple times, and losing much of its already small player base aren't enough?

I, year after year, find it astounding that this game still keeps on kicking, even though it has failed a few times. It ain't dead though. Many games that 'failed' are dead. VtES isn't.

If it endures, I'm saying some things are done right.

Sometimes I wonder why people who think they have such a good understanding of the problems of the game and would love and like a complete rework and relaunch of the game just won't do it. Rewrite the rules, make a new base game, set it under another license (or start discussing it with WW if you're hell-bent on WoD), and just do the game.

Making a new, great game doesn't necessitate the death of another great game.

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to steal the game blatantly.

Mewcat wrote:

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to steal the game blatantly.

It wouldn't be blatant if you fix all the things that are "wrong", change the IP and setting, rework the art and redesign and rebalance the card pool from scratch.

This seems to be what some most vocal people are asking for, and something that would be required if VtES would be 'fixed' to their liking.

Star Realms wasn't illegal to make even though it mimics Dominion at it's core.

And I'm not saying this to be an ass about it. Those that want change and rework of the game are not wrong. The issues they find are fair issues to address. But it would not be VtES anymore, most likely not even like it.

It would be a different game. I could be done as a different game. It wouldn't even be a bad thing. But it wouldn't - and I'm saying shouldn't - be VtES.

There are many vocal people saying VtES shouldn't be this and that, and should instead be reworked into something else. Gather your forces and get to it.

I have thought about making a storyline event called intelligent design where all I do is address the low hanging fruit. Seems kind of sketchy and it wouldn't be a official vtes event but does any one care about that? Maybe, I don't know.