file Number of VtES players

04 Sep 2019 05:56 - 04 Sep 2019 08:23 #96773 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Number of VtES players

As far as rotation goes yes designing new cards in a large pool is a balancing nightmare but once again we are not asking for you to design new cards or change your game, we are asking for a limited format or for you to reprint old cards that are already in the game.

The reprinting strategy seems to be going pretty strong, even though there are a lot of cards still missing of course. The latest preconstructed decks are very high in tournament viability. A Finnish player, Esa-M M (you can see him playing Baali in 2018 Ropecon finals stream), won a 10 player tournament with a freshly cracked Parliament of Shadows deck in June and was inches away from winning another 15 player tournament last saturday with an untouched 25th Anniversary Stanislava.

TWDA:
www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm#2019grdojf

The finals stream:


I have high hopes for the power level of the upcoming V5 starter decks.

This being said, I do understand the daunting number of cards in the pool. Only a fraction of the pool is really, actually viable, and it takes time to filter the best out, but the new starters make a good job in introducing the new player to the easiest to approach high level strategies.

Basically, even if you stick to BCP product line and attend tournaments while playing those decks, you'll have a very good chance in competing. :) Or organize events yourself, where everyone is limited to BCP card pool? It should be great fun.

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Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 08:23 by Kraus.
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04 Sep 2019 08:23 - 04 Sep 2019 08:29 #96775 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Number of VtES players

Instead of creating a new format maybe just reprint the top teir decks so that new players can easily access those for competitive play

Oh, yeah, about this! Winning decks as preconstructed products! I think it has always been a fabulous idea.

A:NR did that (WC winning decks as preconstructeds), but the problem there was that with the really fast pacing of erratas, new sets and rotation (by the end of it), when the decks finally hit the shelves they were not tournament legal anymore. I still bought the packs because of the cool art and all that but there was no that sort of product in the history of the game where you could've brought that deck to an event without modifications.

In VtES it would work wonders though. I just checked Otso's EC winning deck and it would be a GREAT preconstructed deck in itself and includes many rarer and sought-after cards. Slap in some must-have reprints akin to 25th Anniversary and boooya.

Same for Corwin's NAC day 2 winning deck of course, and all major championship event winners. Editing could and should be done by publisher of course to take into account any future errata, bans or rules changes that only they know about.

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Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 08:29 by Kraus.
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04 Sep 2019 09:38 #96779 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Number of VtES players

Instead of creating a new format maybe just reprint the top teir decks so that new players can easily access those for competitive play

Oh, yeah, about this! Winning decks as preconstructed products! I think it has always been a fabulous idea.


I was actually just thinking the same on Monday...

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04 Sep 2019 12:35 #96791 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Number of VtES players

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to steal the game blatantly.

Is it, really? Using the IP is, but no, game mechanics are not protected by law, at least not outside USA. And if you are going to "fix" everything that is wrong with VTES in that new game, it can´t be stealing right?

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04 Sep 2019 12:39 #96793 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Number of VtES players

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to steal the game blatantly.

Is it, really? Using the IP is, but no, game mechanics are not protected by law, at least not outside USA. And if you are going to "fix" everything that is wrong with VTES in that new game, it can´t be stealing right?

I, for one, would LOVE to see those other, fixed games made.

And, once again, not shitting in anyone's direction. I genuinely would like to see more good games in the world. If someone can do better work, PLEASE DO IT! If it really would be better than VtES, I would be first in line to try it out.

You have Elotar here, you have Mewcat here, you have LivesbyProxy here, all of whom I've seen having tons of great ideas and sharing a like minded view on what an absolutely great game would be.

Do it! I want more awesome multiplayers in the world! I truly do!

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04 Sep 2019 12:39 - 04 Sep 2019 12:53 #96794 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players

You don't need data, common sense is enough. If you make any new card you have to take in to considereation all of interaction between exisitng cards allready in play and thier power level. The more cards you have the harder it gets.

Aye, but saying common sense would be enough to warrant rotation as the best option is not really true. With every new rotation you have to make new calculations of the meta and how the new card cycles will behave, whereas if you have the same card pool to work with and make small additions to it on short intervals you have a static meta to tinker around with. That would make it easy to maintain in it's own way.
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Ok I will rephrase not common sense but cost analysis. In all this discussion we tend to forget that BC has to earn money. Maintaining a huge design team to balance all of cards is just not cost efficient.

The reprinting strategy seems to be going pretty strong, even though there are a lot of cards still missing of course. The latest preconstructed decks are very high in tournament viability. A Finnish player, Esa-M M (you can see him playing Baali in 2018 Ropecon finals stream), won a 10 player tournament with a freshly cracked Parliament of Shadows deck in June and was inches away from winning another 15 player tournament last saturday with an untouched 25th Anniversary Stanislava.


Your talking about reprints. But at one point, and it will happen faster than you think, reprinting thinks will lose its value(market will staturate fast) and BC will be forced to make their own cards. Then this problem will start for real. Reprinting has little design cost because all of cards have years of platesting, for new design you have to put a lot of money and time to do it right and more interction you have in game the more money it takes.

Because of this you will have a power creep which doesn't exist now.And you will have to find again a way to sell cards and keep the balance. Of course you can introduce new faction on the same p.lv. but for how long.

I can't for the life of me call this a failing game. It's not MTG, and it never will be. But it's far from going in decline.

It's sad things aren't that great in the States. However, it's just one continent.

VtES has not failed. It has persevered.

And I, for one, will keep on working to introduce this wonderful game to new players. If one in ten takes the hook and manages time to play, it's a win. There's so many things people like to put their minds and time into these days.


You said that VTES was preserved. Between preservation and growth is a huge difference. There was no printing cost no development cost no retail cost no employees to pay. There was only community that loved the games and a lot of people that were willing to do things for free or at low cost. Now we have BC and all of those cost so once again they have to make decisions that are as cost efficient as possible.

Or organize events yourself, where everyone is limited to BCP card pool? It should be great fun


So you are telling us to play tournaments only with BC products to attract new player and not discourage them. So you basically said that we have to create a separate format and make a rotation.

I'm ok with how the game looks right now, but let's be honest entry level for new players is huge and development cost will only increase. I think BC has an opportunity to make a legacy-like format for old players and balance the game, at the same time lowering the entry level for new players
Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 12:53 by Tadori.

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