file Number of VtES players

04 Sep 2019 12:57 #96795 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Number of VtES players

You don't need data, common sense is enough. If you make any new card you have to take in to considereation all of interaction between exisitng cards allready in play and thier power level. The more cards you have the harder it gets.

Edit:
So it's easier to make rotation than have an army of design teams that have to work with each other and are huge cost. And you have to take in to consideration that you have to earn money. People will not buy cards if there will not see increase of their deck power so you have to generate power creep. Rotation is a tool to reset it. Ulitmatly BC is a company and will have to earn.

There are many interesting things to consider here.
- Every time someone says "common sense", I reach for my gun :)
- 13 of the 20 most played cards of in VTES tournaments are from the 1994 base set.
- VTES isn´t Magic the Gathering
- Not much about VTES is "easy", its part of its charm. The design process neither. The players that want "easy" have to look elsewhere.
- The "army of designers" is currently a two man army called Ben and Mike. Plus many volunteer playtesters, a great playtest coordinator and a handful of other helpful people. It works so far!
- No, VTES players doesn´t necessary look to increase the power lever of their deck. Many instead build (for them) new decks. And adapt their decks to changes in their meta, etc.
- Please reread www.blackchantry.com/about-us/vision/
- VTES isn´t Magic the Gathering. Its more like a highly customizable board game.

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04 Sep 2019 13:04 #96796 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Number of VtES players

25 years of vtes having marginal numbers, failing multiple times, and losing much of its already small player base aren't enough?

This ties in with my earlier question: What is the potential of VTES? It _is not_ Magic the Gathering. The target audience is not mainly kids with too much weekly allowance. VTES should rather be compared to many other great classic, social boardgames.

And depending on how you see it, VTES hasn´t "failed multiple times" - it has been the victim of bad circumstances. And it has been reborn multiple times, just like many other truly great games tend to return.

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04 Sep 2019 13:10 - 04 Sep 2019 13:37 #96797 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players

You don't need data, common sense is enough. If you make any new card you have to take in to considereation all of interaction between exisitng cards allready in play and thier power level. The more cards you have the harder it gets.

Edit:
So it's easier to make rotation than have an army of design teams that have to work with each other and are huge cost. And you have to take in to consideration that you have to earn money. People will not buy cards if there will not see increase of their deck power so you have to generate power creep. Rotation is a tool to reset it. Ulitmatly BC is a company and will have to earn.

There are many interesting things to consider here.
- Every time someone says "common sense", I reach for my gun :)


look What I wrote in previous post. i refrased that.

- 13 of the 20 most played cards of in VTES tournaments are from the 1994 base set.


And thats the problem. You will not sell new things if old ones have to high power level.

- Not much about VTES is "easy", its part of its charm. The design process neither. The players that want "easy" have to look elsewhere.


I agree.

- The "army of designers" is currently a two man army called Ben and Mike. Plus many volunteer playtesters, a great playtest coordinator and a handful of other helpful people. It works so far!


As I said in previous post if there is no new design there is no problem.

- No, VTES players doesn´t necessary look to increase the power lever of their deck. Many instead build (for them) new decks. And adapt their decks to changes in their meta, etc.


Your are looking from a perspective of an old timer, new player will have a different perspective

- VTES isn´t Magic the Gathering. Its more like a highly customizable board game.


I agree and disagree at the same time. Board game don't require constant investment and are a closed designs.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 13:37 by Tadori.

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04 Sep 2019 13:12 - 04 Sep 2019 14:00 #96798 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Number of VtES players

So you are telling us to play tournaments only with BC products to attract new player and not discourage them. So you basically said that we have to create a separate format and make a rotation.

If you so choose and your current player base would like that - sure, why not. :) If it would keep them interested and if it would make it easier for them to enter the game.

The option for fun tournament and event options or story line events has always been there. It doesn't require official support, however.

It's your play group. Have fun in any way you want. Isn't it that simple?

Again, not everything requires official support.

But I wouldn't be against some BCP supported events with a BCP restriction or something if it was made so that distributors could make 'friday night VtES' sorts of events. I dunno. So many options - and all available for Princes and event organizers around the world.

And thats the problem. You will not sell new thnig if old ones have to high power level.

Eventually, yes. Ashur, is this being addressed, has it been discussed in BCP meetings, and is BCP facing many problems with selling their products and designing new cards?

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Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 14:00 by Kraus.
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04 Sep 2019 13:17 - 04 Sep 2019 13:19 #96799 by TwoRazorReign

Not much about VTES is "easy", its part of its charm. The design process neither. The players that want "easy" have to look elsewhere.


I'd like to add that there is a ton of "charm" in VTES, and not just related to any perceived difficulty. For me, the "charm" is the source material and how the game represents that source material. Other's may find the "charm" in other parts of the game. What everyone must realize is that any perceived flaws with VTES will have to be weighed against this "charm" factor before getting into the game. The game is old, has the a legacy of being the second major CCG by the person who created M:tG, was made at a time where CCGs were not what they are today, has a major DIY element to it (ie, forming play groups and choosing house rules [play to win or not], amassing counters and edges on your own, deciphering rules and making informed judgement calls, etc.), and is content not to change much with the times. If none of this is charming, then the game just may not be for you.

- VTES isn´t Magic the Gathering. Its more like a highly customizable board game.


This last part is the only thing I disagree with (the first part about not being like M:tG is right on). VTES is very much a card game. I think a lot of people have issues with the game because they put too much emphasis on perceiving the game functioning like a board game, when it really does not. Cards get shuffled and there's a fuck ton of randomness afterword. Many times I have heard people complaining on here about how random VTES is and it being a flaw. Nope. Those people seem to have forgotten that it's a card game, not a board game.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 13:19 by TwoRazorReign.
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04 Sep 2019 13:19 - 04 Sep 2019 13:20 #96800 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players

So you are telling us to play tournaments only with BC products to attract new player and not discourage them. So you basically said that we have to create a separate format and make a rotation.

If you so choose and your current player base would like that - sure, why not. :) If it would keep them interested and if it would make it easier for them to enter the game.

The option for fun tournament and event options or story line events has always been there. It doesn't require official support, however.

It's your play group. Have fun in any way you want. Isn't it that simple?

Again, not everything requires official support.

But I wouldn't be against some BCP supported events with a NCP restriction or something if it was made so that distributors could make 'friday night VtES' sorts of events. I dunno. So many options - and all available for Princes and event organizers around the world.


Acutally We are making a First blood event for new player learn to play and it will finish with first blood only tournament.
Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 13:20 by Tadori.
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