file Number of VtES players

04 Sep 2019 14:22 #96809 by drnlmza
Replied by drnlmza on topic Number of VtES players

I agree and disagree at the same time. Board game don't require constant investment and are a closed designs.


Looking at my shelf of board games expansions, I believe that you are seriously mistaken on both points here.

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04 Sep 2019 14:22 #96810 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Number of VtES players


Same for Corwin's NAC day 2 winning deck of course, and all major championship event winners. Editing could and should be done by publisher of course to take into account any future errata, bans or rules changes that only they know about.


Please, no. Corwin's crappy decks will make everyone throw the cards in the garbage! Trust me, i played one of his decks a week or so ago and it made Trump's decision making seem good. Yea that right, C-dog. Come at me bro.

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04 Sep 2019 15:08 - 04 Sep 2019 15:11 #96811 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players

I agree and disagree at the same time. Board game don't require constant investment and are a closed designs.


Looking at my shelf of board games expansions, I believe that you are seriously mistaken on both points here.


First of all.

Design: Closed design of board games. There is no possibility of a game when one player plays with expansion and other one in the same games is not. It is balanced equally for all players and for the expansion you are playing.

Cost: Because above point you don't need to buy any expansion because it's not mandatory. Base game is 100% enough to have balance play.

In card games, because of open game structure there is a possibility that one player have a deck with 2 expansions and second one has non. Because of this game becomes unbalanced.

Because game becomes imbalanced you are forced to invest to get new expansions to play on a equal footing with other players
Last edit: 04 Sep 2019 15:11 by Tadori.

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04 Sep 2019 16:05 #96812 by redwulfe
Replied by redwulfe on topic Number of VtES players

I agree and disagree at the same time. Board game don't require constant investment and are a closed designs.


Looking at my shelf of board games expansions, I believe that you are seriously mistaken on both points here.


First of all.

Design: Closed design of board games. There is no possibility of a game when one player plays with expansion and other one in the same games is not. It is balanced equally for all players and for the expansion you are playing.

Cost: Because above point you don't need to buy any expansion because it's not mandatory. Base game is 100% enough to have balance play.

In card games, because of open game structure there is a possibility that one player have a deck with 2 expansions and second one has non. Because of this game becomes unbalanced.

Because game becomes imbalanced you are forced to invest to get new expansions to play on a equal footing with other players


Sorry this is a bit of a ramble.

This is all true when you look at the game from the single player who wishes to go to tournaments perspective. But you can have a closed design in the game from a deck cycle perpective that would be similar to a board game. or if you wish take historical miniature players who buy what they wish and then bring it to the group to play together.

We will start with the sabbat decks. These could have been designed in a deck cycle that are specifically design to be played against each other so that they are a closed subset of the whole. For new players this is great as they can pick up one of the decks in this cycle and get right into the game with their playgroup and feel on equal footing. Curretly we would need one more deck to complete that cycle, which I think would be a good thing. wink wink nudge nudge, please see this the powers that be. :) maybe a brood brothers deck?

First blood decks. Another closed cycle that is playable for brand new players to learn the game and is already looking ot be a cheaper 5 deck set. This is another way ot make it like a board game for the casual players but also have a balanced cycle for newer players like myself. this is focus on the basics of the game. Would have liked them in a box set with tokens and a rulebook, but then it would really start to look like a board game. :)

Coming soon camarilla decks another cycle that can be used as a mid teir between First blood and Sabbat it seems. focused on toolboxes to explore more mechanics than basics.

Proposed Tournament serries. For those players that want to jump to the higher levels of play, should also be a 5 deck cycle and focused on top teir play and strategies this can be used as a board game cycle like previous cycles but also as a way to explore the competative side of the game.

Reprint sets. These are used around a them possibly expanding on one of the cycles with cards that are designed with the cards in that cycle in mind to expand collections for players that wish to mod their cycle decks or expand their collection for the individule. yOU could even put out guides witht he reprint cycle for taking exsisting decks to the next level. for example taking the Keepers of the Traditions reprint set to make the First blood decks into full decks to play with the Camarilla cycle or taking the camarilla cycle up to the Sabbat teir.

This strategy gives you lots of options for all levels of play.
1. You could just buy a cycle bring it to your game night and hand out the decks to have an impromtu game, like a board game night. :) If you want to increase the challenge buy another cycle or a reprint set made for you cycle and mod the 5 decks to add cards from your reprint set to explore their themes more.

2. Each player in your newly formedd group only has to buy one deck from the cycle and split the cost of the game. you are now playing balanced games and if you want ot expand latter you can all buy a reprint set to expand on the game or one of you can and loan cards to the others. Heck if you want you can just reby the deck you use in the closed gourp and mod it if you wish for higher tier play or talk with your group and see if everyone wishes to buy the next teir up. or you can go to point 1 and buy the next teir yourself and hand out these decks at your next gourp's get together.

3. You could do step 1 or 2 and then get on lackCCG to continue to explore new strategies limiting your deck building to your card base if you want and learn to play the game in stronger fomats and keep your casual group casual.

Though this is a CCG and not a Board game you can use board game strategies to get new players into the game and not be forced to buy expansions unless you wish to.

This also makes card available to new players that wish to build a collection and gives them a structure to explore with friends who also might get into the game with them.

For older players it gives them access to older cards with fixed text and possible new art if the designers wish to do so. With these strategies you don't neccesarrily need too many new cards, so require less design. this also means old cards can receive up dates and errata and you can continue to make money on older and newer players as you grow the game but still keep it the same for the older player base.
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05 Sep 2019 07:16 - 05 Sep 2019 07:16 #96821 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Number of VtES players
You are absolutely right it's called formats and you need rotation to maintain them. This is what we are discussing. As Kraus said you can do it by yourselfs but in my opinion its worth to take them in to considerenation as an offical solution, becouse with somekind of support program like FNM it will atract new players.
Last edit: 05 Sep 2019 07:16 by Tadori.

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05 Sep 2019 09:12 #96824 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Number of VtES players

And thats the problem. You will not sell new thnig if old ones have to high power level.

Eventually, yes. Ashur, is this being addressed, has it been discussed in BCP meetings, and is BCP facing many problems with selling their products and designing new cards?

Lots of things are discussed, but the core of what we have agreed on is rather well summarized in "Our vision" at the site. BCP are currently producing VTES, not rebuilding it. Making new crypt cards, new precons, reprinting what old cards that are worth reprinting, filling some "blank spots" in the design space and doing some new stuff thats in line with current metaplot (Hecata, Banu Haqim, etc) will keep us very busy for the forseeable future - producing cards that are more powerful than Govern the Unaligned just to satisfy people that want more powerful cards is not very interesting.

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