What is missing from VtES?

xXLazarusXx wrote:

What do you think is lacking in vtes, from a game design OR thematic standpoint?
Is there a particular mechanic you wish was implimented added or changed, or maybe a rare clan or even a mummy?

Late to the party but:
Mulligan rule.

I'm curious how a mulligan rule would be implemented and why one is needed. I'm of the opinion a mulligan rule should not be official, but can be used in casual games among friends.

Definitely NO mulligan!

So like a few people here I’m a little late to the party.
I’m a neonate V/tes player (actually I bought cards since the Jyhad days but I’ve had only few occasions to play, but a longtime Mtg player.
On page 6 of the thread I read a post by a chap dubbed ICL, and I thought “I totally agree with that” and I decided to offer my input as a new V:tes player coming from another game.

It’s true a lot of the complexity of the game seems a bit redundant now (note here that at the Time V:tes was created a lot of Mtg cards had a complex wording and design as well, but Wizards of the coasts over the years has worked on streamlining the card design. Something White wolf had less resources for.
I think streamlining things would do the game good.

Regarding the design space :
I think the game needs streamlining in deck mechanics. I think more draw cards, a bit more tutoring (especially in a game that uses a lot of unique cards), and a few more graveyard… sorry, ash heap, shenanigans could be thought about.

I totally think that politics could be more fun.
Actually, when I first read the Rules for Jyhad, and tried to play with a friend, I thought each Methuselah had a voice. I was disappointed several years latter during my first multiplayer experience when I learned that that was not the case. And yet I still feel it could be better.
Imagine you play a vote deck in a 5 player game. Well as the game is played now, it’s easy because, you certainly have all the necessary votes in you hand. But if each other player had a vote, well, things would REALLY be political, because you may, from the start have to bargain your way to pass your vote, and that’s what I call politics.

And of course the cards regarding politics should be more than just “add more votes”

I think Clan lore should be more used for creative design. For example, I’ve always been disappointed by the specials of the Nosferatu, these guys are supposed to know everything and meddle with information, they should be able, not only to look at someone’s hand, the should be able to rearrange the library, discard (without, the target being able to re-draw before end of turn and let you draw all that information. That’s just an example.

The sect should be more important for deck building as well as the relations between the sects.
Seriously, in real ‘life’ can you imagine a Cam vamp fighting alongside a Sabbat vampire ? no way.

“Cheat into play effects” could be fun. It would be possible to keep it balanced by making the effect just for a turn, then burn, the ally, vamp, etc. In Mtg it’s a strong mechanic, but it is fun to play.

“Come into play effects” (dubbed 187 in Mtg)
Those two last items are design spaces that don’t seem to have been tapped and require no new mechanic. They can be strong but are simple to grasp for a newer player.

More group 1 vamps yeah !
And it’s frustrating to always see new groups. Because and you can have those new vamps interact with the vamps you already have.

mathusalem wrote:

and a few more graveyard… sorry, ash heap, shenanigans could be thought about.

Please no.
Meddling with ash heap used to be something that more or less just Giovanni could do. With Ashurs it is anyone's game. And they totally changed how the game can be played (I do see some good in that too though).

mathusalem wrote:

Imagine you play a vote deck in a 5 player game. Well as the game is played now, it’s easy because, you certainly have all the necessary votes in you hand. But if each other player had a vote, well, things would REALLY be political, because you may, from the start have to bargain your way to pass your vote, and that’s what I call politics.

Uh, when there are titled vampires all over the table that is REALLY political as no matter what you have in your hand it is likely not to be enough by itself. At least that is how it feels when I play votecentric decks....

mathusalem wrote:

Seriously, in real ‘life’ can you imagine a Cam vamp fighting alongside a Sabbat vampire ? no way.

Seriously in real life dead people stay dead...
Besides players are metuselah's who are orchestrating the moves of Cainites from all sects, all over the world. They do not fight together as one group.

mathusalem wrote:

More group 1 vamps yeah !
And it’s frustrating to always see new groups. Because and you can have those new vamps interact with the vamps you already have.

New groups are a necessity if we are to have new vamps.
But I'm all for getting Advanced copies of crappy Group 1 vampires (and other groups too) to make them more playable.

mathusalem wrote:

I think the game needs streamlining in deck mechanics. I think more draw cards, a bit more tutoring (especially in a game that uses a lot of unique cards), and a few more graveyard… sorry, ash heap, shenanigans could be thought about.

There's already plenty ash heap recursion in VTES (Ashur's Tablets). Also, a card was banned recently (Anthelios, the Red Star) because ash heap manipulation and recursion were viewed by some as being too big a part of the game.

I totally think that politics could be more fun.
Actually, when I first read the Rules for Jyhad, and tried to play with a friend, I thought each Methuselah had a voice. I was disappointed several years latter during my first multiplayer experience when I learned that that was not the case. And yet I still feel it could be better.
Imagine you play a vote deck in a 5 player game. Well as the game is played now, it’s easy because, you certainly have all the necessary votes in you hand. But if each other player had a vote, well, things would REALLY be political, because you may, from the start have to bargain your way to pass your vote, and that’s what I call politics.

The problem here is not "as the game is played now", it's how your metagame is now. If you feel nobody else plays political decks enough, start playing lots of Parity Shift, Banishment, and KRC. Include some Deflections/Telepathic Misdirections to thwart bleed decks and fortitude damage prevention/Strike: Combat Ends to shut down combat. You should start seeing more votes at the table in response.